calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 933
Registered: 03-25-2007
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Any general ideas on what puzzles can be done with guards (not stalwarts, guards)? I'm currently working on a level with them, and though I have a couple of rooms done, I'm struggling to find original stuff. There's the obvious set where you just have to fight a lot of guards at once (I've made a variation on this one so it's not quite so dull)

There's another where you have to get the guard to kill various monsters inside a maze without it getting trapped. And I've got ideas about using a guard as a no-back tracking measure (inside a 1-space wide corridor)

But guards puzzle me. I honestly can't seem to get any decent ideas using them as a puzzle element.

Any thoughts?

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RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

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Not a lot of people have taken advantage of the fact that guards can strike orbs. If you're creative, this idea alone can be used to a lot of interesting effects.

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schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
Registered: 03-01-2005
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Manipulating guards is rather unique, since they do two things no other monster does. Er, wait, that's only half true with a new TCB monster.
1. They always try to turn their weapon toward you.
2. They have their own brains. Even when there's no brain in the room, they'll take the shortest path they think will get them to the player.

#1 can be useful for getting a guard to delay, but #2 is the really interesting one. Doors of all colors and trapdoors can suddenly make a guard change its mind entirely about which way it should be going. "Don't Kill the Messenger" features a few guard manipulation puzzles (but is a rather hard hold).

starwed
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 49
Registered: 12-16-2006
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I used a few guard tricks in Quirk's Mode, especially on the (makeshift) second level.

The fact that guards strike orbs, and have a unique movement behavior, means that guard manipulation puzzles can be pretty interesting. They can also kill other monsters, cut tar, and break walls, again unique out of all monsters. (Well, the adder fills two of those roles now.) IIRC, there are some interesting guard puzzles in Blue Rooms.

Within TCB, guards can also push/shatter mirrors, which adds a new type of puzzle. I haven't tested this for yet, but if their swords reflect back aumtlich beams that's another possible puzzle use.

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

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Maybe you shuld use the sword delay behaviour to have the player delay the guard so he can get to a section before he is blocked. And have an anti-door to force the player to keep the guard alive.

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calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 933
Registered: 03-25-2007
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Thanks for the ideas, guys. I'm doing this as a JtRH hold though, so some of those options aren't available to me. But having a guard strike orbs is an interesting one.

So far, I've done a guard rush room (lots at you at once, with a twist), and a room where you have to keep a guard alive while fighting other stuff. I'm working on the others...

Still... 84 rooms done. Not going badly Will keep going until I run of out of motivation/ideas, then kindly and humbly beg for a beta tester or two to help me trim out the crap rooms.

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NeonElephant
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 25
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Halph Has A Bad Day has a couple of clever rooms with guards... guards can kill Halph (used in at least one room), and they can be manipulated into clearing tarstuff in a mostly-inaccessible area in order to open a black door.

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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NeonElephant wrote:
Halph Has A Bad Day has a couple of clever rooms with guards... guards can kill Halph (used in at least one room), and they can be manipulated into clearing tarstuff in a mostly-inaccessible area in order to open a black door.

I might look into that after payday, since you don't get the Smitemaster's Selections fro free any more

Using Halph is a possibility too, I've not actually included him in any rooms in my hold yet.

I have now done a guard and tar room - guard in a room full of tar and mud bits with various handy tunnels around it - and the guard has to remove all the tar so a black door can drop... before a roach queen fills up every available space for a mimic to drop into. Thanks for the idea about the tar guys!

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Neathro
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 41
Registered: 04-24-2007
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I think i could beta?

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calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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Neathro wrote:
I think i could beta?

That would be welcome. When I've mostly done the hold, I'll be asking for beta testers

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Jothki
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 02-18-2007
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Done anything where you have to use guards to mess with the pathing of a Slayer?

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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Jothki wrote:
Done anything where you have to use guards to mess with the pathing of a Slayer?

Not yet... but I suspect I'm not going to include the Slayer in this hold for story reasons.

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calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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starwed wrote:
I used a few guard tricks in Quirk's Mode, especially on the (makeshift) second level.

The fact that guards strike orbs, and have a unique movement behavior, means that guard manipulation puzzles can be pretty interesting. They can also kill other monsters, cut tar, and break walls, again unique out of all monsters.

Just wanted to say thanks for giving me those ideas - I now have a nasty room where you have to keep a guard alive while doing other stuff... with lots of strategically placed orbs that the guard must not strike, otherwise the room becomes clearly impossible.

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vittro
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 483
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calamarain wrote:

Neathro wrote:
I think i could beta?

That would be welcome. When I've mostly done the hold, I'll be asking for beta testers

I like beta-testing. Feel free to add me.

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calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 933
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vittro wrote:

calamarain wrote:

Neathro wrote:
I think i could beta?

That would be welcome. When I've mostly done the hold, I'll be asking for beta testers

I like beta-testing. Feel free to add me.

Will do. It'll be a while yet - have done the 12 main themed levels (around a particular monster), but still need some mixed levels, and to get the speech/storyline done. I'm determined that my first hold should be a damned good one. At least in terms of the surface polish I can't say whether or not the puzzles are good!

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