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skell
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icon Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+6)  
I've ran the test spider against 5.1.1, checking the top demo of every published room. I'd appreciate some help.

Here is the list of rooms and reasons they failed:
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I need your help. For every one I marked as "SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM COMPLETABLE!" I need someone to check if it's completable. Not look at the room, I need them to actually be played through and cleared. In many of those most likely only a few demos are broken but still. At this point all the remaining things we'll be fixing for 5.1.1 will be regressions, no new fixes to game logic will be coming.

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[Last edited by skell at 11-15-2020 09:24 PM]
11-14-2020 at 10:10 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Attaching executable that includes fixes in this thread, so that you can check without accidentally encountering any of the problems in there.

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[Last edited by skell at 11-14-2020 10:23 PM]
11-14-2020 at 10:23 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: UAC Restricted Resources 1N1E - snake movement.demo (27.9 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
I have not played through all of the Unfortunate Architect room because setting things up for the mimic is a huge pain. However, the snake can pretty much be considered in isolation.

On my previous look at this room, I missed that the snake needs to go north in order to block a roach later. So I focused on getting past the force arrow and out of brain range, with the snake in a position it can be manipulated from.

From the end of this demo, you can move in and out of brain range freely and make sure the snake has horizontal preference when it's in the east corridor. Then it will move north, since east isn't an option.

If you absolutely need a full demo, I'll try to get one in a bit, but nothing done in setting up the snake should have any real impact on the rest of the room.
11-14-2020 at 10:46 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: XFH Invisible Brains 2N1E Victory.demo (29.5 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
Xindaris' First Hold Invisible Brains 2N1E: Haven't looked at this in the beta yet, but I don't see any point in this demo where the change would affect anything.
11-14-2020 at 10:58 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: QLBH3 A Dozen Rooms Minus Two 2N Victory.demo (27.8 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
Quick Lunch Break #3 2N: I don't see any point in this demo which would be affected by the snake change. The snake has a brain path to me up to the point when it's dead.
11-14-2020 at 11:03 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Can someone explain how to use the new version? I tried replacing the old "drod.exe" with the file attached, but when I run it I get errors saying it can't find SDL2.dll and SDL2_ttf.dll.

And I was all excited about testing this, because one of the rooms is one I finished for the first time today. (The Goblin)
11-14-2020 at 11:14 PM
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Doom
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
skell wrote:
Daggers no longer prevent babies from spawning under them (this)
Chance for Paradise (Hold ID: 666) -> Unstable Sewer -> 2 North -> SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM COMPLETABLE!
Pretty sure this is unsolvable. Watched a demo for the live version and there's like six two or three different spots where this change kills you. Making this solvable would require many little changes and a ton of playtesting (it's somewhat magic-sequencey, so it's not at all obvious if any given change works or not)

edit: I may have overestimated how bad it is, but still not an easy room to fix

[Last edited by Doom at 11-14-2020 11:45 PM]
11-14-2020 at 11:16 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
This is not a formal confirmation, but the other invisibility/brain/snake rooms all look like they'll be fine, just a matter of reacting to the new position where the snake ends up. Anyone testing that shouldn't worry.

The Goblin: Briar Patch 2S1E seems impossible - the briar has to be disconnected on the right side to advance, but you have to disconnect it on the left side too, and it will grow again before you can actually cut off the part that kills you.

An up-facing force arrow on (35,16) should prevent this, and I believe all existing demos will work after this change.

Mentioned already in the thread, but the aumtlich room in Twelve Days of Christmas is probably impossible. Modifying it slightly so the aumtlichs spend two turns gazing instead of one should resolve the issue.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 11-14-2020 11:22 PM]
11-14-2020 at 11:21 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Kalin wrote:
Can someone explain how to use the new version? I tried replacing the old "drod.exe" with the file attached, but when I run it I get errors saying it can't find SDL2.dll and SDL2_ttf.dll.

And I was all excited about testing this, because one of the rooms is one I finished for the first time today. (The Goblin)

Sorry, should have clarified - take latest build from the pinned 5.1.1 thread and replace the exe. Also back up your dats!

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11-14-2020 at 11:25 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
I think a couple of these just break optimized demos and doing more checks should find working ones.

Unfinished Work - Ocean - 2N: My demo clears this without killing the citizen. I didn't even realize this was possible. Edit: Same thing in Flight of the Fegundo Jungle 3N. Is this the same issue or a different one?
Cheap Trick - Chicanery - 1E: I suspect the top demos might save a turn by moving off the trapdoor on the same turn the citizen replaces it. If you don't do this (my demo doesn't), the change shouldn't be a problem?

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 11-14-2020 11:55 PM]
11-14-2020 at 11:50 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
Don't Play This Dumb Hold - Some Dumb Rooms - 2 North, 11 West

The idea of this is that the guard goes around the decoy, allowing you to gain some distance. A force arrow under the decoy should preserve demos, I think? Or even an orthosquare.
11-15-2020 at 12:08 AM
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TFMurphy
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
Dragon Fogel wrote:
The Goblin: Briar Patch 2S1E seems impossible - the briar has to be disconnected on the right side to advance, but you have to disconnect it on the left side too, and it will grow again before you can actually cut off the part that kills you.
It's conquerable. The main obstacle is that after breaking the connection at (33,26), you have to be very careful about when you break the connection at (35,16). The high scores for this room break (35,16) while the briar down the right side still hasn't reconnected at the bottom.

The Force Arrow suggestion should preserve demos without adversely changing the room though.
11-15-2020 at 12:17 AM
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Kalin
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File: FotF Jungle Heat 3N Victory.demo (1.5 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
Flight of the Fegundo is fine. I'm honestly not sure why it would break in the first place.

(edited since someone else already solved The Goblin)

[Last edited by Kalin at 11-15-2020 12:47 AM]
11-15-2020 at 12:30 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
I tried messing around with that, but it just got me killed by the briar. Maybe I had to get the fegundo to the broken wall sooner.

At the least this is a pretty major increase in difficulty, so a demo-preserving fix is probably the better option here.
11-15-2020 at 12:30 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: CfP Unstable Sewer 2N Victory.demo (30.5 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
Doom wrote:
skell wrote:
Daggers no longer prevent babies from spawning under them (this)
Chance for Paradise (Hold ID: 666) -> Unstable Sewer -> 2 North -> SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM COMPLETABLE!
Pretty sure this is unsolvable. Watched a demo for the live version and there's like six two or three different spots where this change kills you. Making this solvable would require many little changes and a ton of playtesting (it's somewhat magic-sequencey, so it's not at all obvious if any given change works or not)

edit: I may have overestimated how bad it is, but still not an easy room to fix

Still haven't gotten around to installing the beta for proper testing, but I just did this run where I deliberately never blocked a baby spawn.
11-15-2020 at 02:10 AM
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Xindaris
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File: XFH Invisible Brains Verification.demo (10.2 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+2)  
Attached is demos for all 4 rooms from Xindaris' First Hold that work in the latest beta. Two of them I had old demos that still worked for, two I made new demos tonight.

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11-15-2020 at 02:21 AM
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Doom
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File: CfP Unstable Sewer 2N.hold (2 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+2)  
Dragon Fogel wrote:
Still haven't gotten around to installing the beta for proper testing, but I just did this run where I deliberately never blocked a baby spawn.
Actually you blocked a baby spawn six times.

More detailed analysis:
Click here to view the secret text


edit: Attached the room with the suggested change

[Last edited by Doom at 11-15-2020 10:59 AM]
11-15-2020 at 10:42 AM
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skell
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+2)  
Dragon Fogel wrote:
Still haven't gotten around to installing the beta for proper testing,

I appreciate your eagerness to help, but this creates more work for everyone - I can't trust all of your confirmations, need to pay more attention reading the thread and updating the status of the holds and other people also have to pay more attention.

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[Last edited by skell at 11-15-2020 12:15 PM]
11-15-2020 at 12:14 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (0)  
@TFMurphy - I assume you have played that room in The Goblin in 5.1.1 and completed it?

@Everyone
- Can someone also double check Christmas Tower (Hold ID: 452) -> First Level -> 1 South, 1 East in 5.1.1?

Updated the first post with all the confirmations so far and statuses of everything.

Unfinished Work - Ocean - 2N: My demo clears this without killing the citizen. I didn't even realize this was possible. Edit: Same thing in Flight of the Fegundo Jungle 3N. Is this the same issue or a different one?

Yup, that's the issue.

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[Last edited by skell at 11-15-2020 12:47 PM]
11-15-2020 at 12:28 PM
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Doom
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+3)  
skell wrote:
Broken by serpent+brain+nopath:
Invisibility Compilation (Hold ID: 376) -> Peek-a-Boo -> 1 North, 2 West -> SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM COMPLETABLE!

Gentryii chain not correctly updating pathmapping (this)
Combined hazards (Hold ID: 700) -> Gentryii & pressure plates -> 1 North, 1 West -> SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM COMPLETABLE!
Combined hazards (Hold ID: 700) -> The end is the beginning is the end -> 1 South -> SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM COMPLETABLE!

Clone ordering changes: (this)
Christmas Tower (Hold ID: 452) -> First Level -> 1 South, 1 East -> confirmed completable by Dragon Fogel (linked thread) But can someone double check it in 5.1.1?
These four rooms are all solvable in 5.1.1.

Victory demos attached
11-15-2020 at 01:24 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Re: Zealots Trials Shapeshifting 2S

I have thought about this since I found the topic about that behaviour change. And I have my own fix in mind, which I have now implemented (attached hold+new demo, please confirm it works properly in 5.1.1)

Pros: no funny scripting involved (as neat as such fix would be, I really dislike including arbitrary scripting in my rooms unless it's fully scripted custom element which always behaves in consistent manner)
Cons: will break demos. Also a starting part of the room is changed somewhat. There are only 3 people who have caravelnet scores for that room though. Hopefully breaking demos is not too big of a deal in this case?

It is kind of unfortunate that this room got involved since killing-decoy thing is not actually the "main" trick there. Could just enforce killing an actual monster from the start if I knew this behaviour would be changed. Oh well.
11-15-2020 at 03:12 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Honestly, I'm surprised the pathmap obstacle fix didn't break more rooms in Blockerture Science Laboratories, since I apparently published that all the way through before discovering the relevant bug. I guess there's just not many brained monsters in that hold to begin with is all.

Anyway, a lot of my demos for Floating Antechamber 2N broke in the new version, but not this one. So: Confirmed still solvable.

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11-15-2020 at 03:47 PM
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TFMurphy
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+2)  
skell wrote:
@TFMurphy - I assume you have played that room in The Goblin in 5.1.1 and completed it?
I have. But Dragon Fogel is correct -- the room is much more difficult than before in its current condition in 5.1.1.

I've had a 1st place tie for the room for years, and updating the strategy I use to be able to complete the room in 5.1.1 leads to 0 turns of leeway, since I need the briar to grow twice after breaking the connection at (33,26), which means breaking (33,26) no later than Turn 143, which is exactly the turn I break it in my optimized strategy.

Prior to this, you could break it as late as Turn 191 and still complete the room.
11-15-2020 at 03:47 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
..And here's a demo for Exit Garden 1S1E. That room's intended solution doesn't really involve pushing kegs onto swords in the first place.

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11-15-2020 at 03:50 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: UAC Restricted Resources 1N1E - snake on track.demo (28 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Finally got myself to do the roughly two steps in installing the beta. Here's a demo of getting the snake to go north in the Unfortunate Architect room. I guess I'll do the rest of the room later, but after this is done there's nothing that should be impacted by changes.
11-15-2020 at 03:59 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: IC Peek-a-Boo 1N2W Victory.demo (28.6 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Invisibility Compilation 1N2W solved.

My demos for Quick Lunch Break #3 and Cheap Trick Chicanery do not break in the beta. Can provide those if desired.

Currently looking at Combined Hazards. Demos broke in both rooms. Gentryii & Pressure Plates 1N1W is a total mess now (even more than it already was) and I'm not sure if it's solvable. Going to take a look at the hub room in a minute.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 11-15-2020 04:21 PM]
11-15-2020 at 04:21 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Demo for the hub room in Combined hazards.
11-15-2020 at 04:27 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: RS Brewing Vats 1S1W Victory.demo (28.9 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Rival Startup room completed.
11-15-2020 at 04:34 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: Ch Gentryii pressure plates 1N1W Victory.demo (28.4 KB)
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Took some wrangling, but I got this room too. Looks like that's the last one to check, other than taking that Unfortunate Architect room to a full conclusion.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 11-15-2020 04:47 PM]
11-15-2020 at 04:46 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Rooms broken by 5.1.1 (+1)  
Unfortunate Architect room confirmed solvable.
11-15-2020 at 05:08 PM
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