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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+1)  
If a dagger is in a tile, when tarstuff spawns, babies will not form on that tile. This does not happen with roach eggs or waterskippers.

Daggers also prevent tarstuff babies from forming if they are over tarstuff when it becomes unstable.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 10-07-2020 03:44 AM]
10-06-2020 at 11:27 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+1)  
So this was mentioned in the chat and my opinion is that it's very much an unintended behavior, but let me argument that:

1. Unlike other weapons daggers do not occupy physical space on the target tile. They don't prevent other monsters from stepping on the tile they "occupy".
2. Visually they take very little space on their tile, which reinforces the notion that they're not part of its space.
3. Moreover, Aumtlich beams can be blocked by the dagger only from the front.
4. The combination of the above, in my opinion, is enough so that the default assumption of any player who has used daggers for more than few minutes will be that it should not prevent tar babies from forming.
5. There is also no auto-stab behavior with daggers, like you have with sword (you can keep dagger on a bomb if you rotate it), so it can't be argued entities just auto stab the tar babies as they form. Which anyway would be inconsistent with the rule that stabs happen only on the monster's move.

The only argument against I can think of is:
1. It keeps it consistent with other weapons. But I think it's not a good argument, because the current behavior makes it inconsistent with other dagger's behaviors.

There is also another question that must be asked - how many rooms will fixing this break?

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10-07-2020 at 06:09 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+1)  
I did a search for rooms with a dagger token and tar, mud, or gel. None of those rooms depended on this behavior.

This wouldn't catch rooms with a dagger produced through scripting or with mothers that start with no tarstuff under them, but those rooms would be more memorable and I probably would have thought of them myself if they'd used this.
10-07-2020 at 05:13 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (0)  
Thanks for the write-up of these points and room analysis.

Completely agree this is unintended behavior and should be corrected.

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10-07-2020 at 10:03 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+2)  
PR

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10-29-2020 at 10:05 AM
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kieranmillar
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File: BUG REPORT Daggers prevent baby spawns.hold (987 bytes)
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+1)  
This issue is not fixed in 5.1.1.alpha.2020-10-29.

The attached example hold will allow you to place dagger decoys in places that I hope are obvious to check the following behaviours:

1) daggers do not block tarstuff growth - not part of the bug report but included for consistency, they do not block growth as expected.

2) daggers do not block baby spawns when tarstuff blobs are cut - This is not working, they are currently preventing baby creation.

3) daggers do not block baby spawns as a result of tarstuff growth - this is not working,currently the baby spawns are being blocked.

EDIT: I am an idiot, 3 is working fine.

[Last edited by kieranmillar at 10-31-2020 09:51 PM]
10-31-2020 at 08:51 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+2)  
Fix for #2: PR

Note that the tar baby on the cut tile will not spawn and that's certainly intended.

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10-31-2020 at 09:55 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Dagger prevents tarstuff babies from spawning (+1)  
Can confirm fixed in 5.1.1.alpha.2020-11-04. Tarstuff babies formed by unstable tar are now formed underneath daggers.
11-07-2020 at 11:19 AM
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