Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

File: Back to the Furniture.hold (86.2 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

I've been tinkering with this one for a good while now. I had originally intended to write more actual story for it, but at this point, I'm actually starting to get a little brain numb about it.

Also, I think I may need a few hint scrolls scattered throughout, but I've been so familiar with this thing for so long that I no longer trust my judgement as to which rooms need hints. So any advice in that arena would be nice.

Basically, I've played it very thoroughly and every room is solvable. The entire thing is designed to accommodate backtracking and there's just a tiny reward on the last level for those who can drop the master wall.

And I don't have strong feelings regarding unintended solutions. Sure, if they make it way too easy, I'll look at fixing it.

Just let me know what you think.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 03-09-2012 03:56 AM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

I thought I'd set the hold to Anyone Edit, but turns out I hadn't. I've uploaded a version that anyone can edit for the development process.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

Comments after reaching 1st stairs-

Storyline- Great. The humor is very fun to read. Super job!
Entr: My favorite room of the level. Manipulating the puzzle piece platforms was fun.
1S: ok concept, but not very challenging and pretty repetitive.
1W: Again, pretty easy. Hit orb, kill monsters. Repeat.
1N2E: Only tricky part for me was after securing the raft and heading north. I killed the top nest and brain before finishing off the others.
2N: Got this pretty easily killing skippers.
1N1E: It looked like this room was supposed to be trickier, but the single square platform made everything very easy. After killing the giants I hit the bottom switch and then rode around to the top switch to hit it.

All for now.

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

Thanks larrymurk for the response.

Entr: Yeah, I really wanted that first room to be fun.
1S, 1W, 2N: I decided I'd start out with a few simple rooms on the first level. I agree that some of them can get a little repetitive. Maybe I'll look over them to see if I can make them a bit less so.
1N2E: That's basically how I intend that one to play out. I only have difficulty coming around the top as well. I suppose I could work to make the rest hard, but I'm always afraid that I'll push it past fun and straight into "I'm done with this one for now." The whole room used to be muuuuch harder. But I didn't have fun with it any more so I made it easier.
1N1E: Yup, there's an example of how I'm too close to this one to judge it correctly. That platform is from an old version of the level that I ended up abandoning. I've modified it so you shouldn't be able to get to the small platform and copied up a new version of the hold.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

I hope someone else plays through this and gives you feedback. At the rate I go, it could be years before I finish.

Level 2- Drippity Drop
My overall impression on this level was mostly rooms with the 3 snake colors, skippers, queen roaches and brains. These rooms seemed to be a matter of hack and slash pretty much.
Entr- It seemed the 1st builder would get eaten by the adder so I killed golems around the adder to force the builder to go around safely.
1N- appears to be pretty hard. unsolved.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1917
Registered: 12-09-2004
IP: Logged

level 3- Labary..

All the required rooms seem ok. 1S was a neat mazelike room.

Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3414
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

File: Back to the Furniture TT.demo (8.4 KB)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Through the first level; it's not a tightly constructed linchpin type hold, and I have no problem with that. It has some neat room construction. I don't have that many comments, since breakage isn't such a huge issue.

1N1E: Unclear what the purposes of the crumbly wall, the citizen, and the token rotator are.
1N2E: Wouldn't mind another checkpoint further along the path.
2N: Maybe another checkpoint or two? Was sort of hoping to find something in the northern section, since it's accessible.

Demos attached.

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Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

Dischorran wrote:
Through the first level; it's not a tightly constructed linchpin type hold, and I have no problem with that. It has some neat room construction. I don't have that many comments, since breakage isn't such a huge issue.

1N1E: Unclear what the purposes of the crumbly wall, the citizen, and the token rotator are.
1N2E: Wouldn't mind another checkpoint further along the path.
2N: Maybe another checkpoint or two? Was sort of hoping to find something in the northern section, since it's accessible.

Yeah, I'll do linchpin rooms from time to time, but they're not my favorite to either design or play.

But here are my responses to your room-specific comments:
1N1E: The crumbly wall and citizen are purely environment and serve no puzzle purpose. But the arrow rotation token is purely to make it easier to allow people to leave out the left entrance after finishing the room rather than the right, if they so choose. It's not necessary for the puzzle either. You found a different solution than the one I intended, but I don't particularly mind that. I prefer rooms that don't lock you into one solution only. And yours isn't particularly harder or easier than the one I intended. I could fix that easily, but I'm going to leave it as-is.
1N2E: Another checkpoint is doable, but I figured the one I have is roughly half way to the center (distance and difficulty wise) and once there, you have a platform to move to the checkpoint in the water easily enough. Where would you suggest I place another one?
2N: I can place a couple new checkpoints easy enough. But the area at the top that is accessible is actually a red herring to distract from the fact that there's a secret wall nearby to a secret room.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 03-08-2012 07:40 AM]

Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3414
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

File: Back to the Furniture 2.demo (17.8 KB)
Downloaded 46 times.
License: Public Domain

Here are some more demos; I've gotten through much of the second level. 1N and 1W (and any rooms beyond) are lagging behind since they're tough. You might want to check my demos for the secret rooms in particular: I'm not sure why I'd ever want to drop the red gates in 1N2E.

As far as checkpoints go, my own bias is that you should consider roughly doubling the number. These are long rooms, and frequently either non-linear enough that one's strategy might not go near an existing checkpoint or with big enough hordes that I can't afford the time to backtrack. I was griping about wanting more checkpoints in DD: Entrance and 1N1E in particular while playing them.

For TT:1N2E, say, I might put a checkpoint in the middle of each of the lower horizontal bridges instead of the single one on the middle upper horizontal bridge. I suppose the counterargument would be that you have a great optimization hold and fewer checkpoints might make a more interesting challenge.

The rooms in the second level also look great and have neat layouts.

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[Last edited by Dischorran at 03-09-2012 02:56 AM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

Dischorran wrote:
I'm not sure why I'd ever want to drop the red gates in 1N2E.

As far as checkpoints go, my own bias is that you should consider roughly doubling the number. These are long rooms, and frequently either non-linear enough that one's strategy might not go near an existing checkpoint or with big enough hordes that I can't afford the time to backtrack. I was griping about wanting more checkpoints in DD: Entrance and 1N1E in particular while playing them.

For TT:1N2E, say, I might put a checkpoint in the middle of each of the lower horizontal bridges instead of the single one on the middle upper horizontal bridge. I suppose the counterargument would be that you have a great optimization hold and fewer checkpoints might make a more interesting challenge.

The rooms in the second level also look great and have neat layouts.

Okay, I've increased the number of checkpoints throughout the entire hold. I've tried to make them break up the work for each room roughly evenly, but it's kind of hard to know for sure on some of them.

TT:1N2E - What you suggested sounded reasonable so that's just what I did.

DD:1N2E - Yeah, there was originally much more gel, but it was way too tough, so I cut it back dramatically. However I neglected to move the eyes. (Another example of why we need people to play test these things because the architect is too close to notice these things some times.) I've moved the eyes so now you have to drop the red gates to get to the gel mother.

(As you would expect, I've posted the newer hold file on the file in the first post.)

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3414
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

File: BttF Drippity Drop 1N2E Victory.demo (1.9 KB)
Downloaded 45 times.
License: Public Domain

Demo of the revised DD:1N2E. I wasn't expecting the mud mother assault to work as nicely as it did.

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