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File: Under the Mountains V27.hold (69.2 KB)
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This is my second hold. It continues the story of my first hold (The Sunken Pyramid), and contains mostly not DROD-like puzzles recreated in DROD.

CuriousShyRabbit
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If you're a fan of challenging non-DROD-like puzzles, you should definitely rush to check this hold out. Here, the puzzles are presented in an attractive setting, complete with story, and the added challenge of finding and reaching the secret rooms.

For the most part, these puzzles were very well executed. My favorites are:
A hysteresis puzzle: Under the Mountains : The Underground Path : 1 North, 1 East, where the player moves only on a NE-SW diagonal, but manages to work a mimic north to its goal by sliding it against pits.
A small fractal maze: Under the Mountains : Eternal Stairway : Entrance, a puzzle type that I hadn't successfully solved before. This one was not too easy, but not too hard either, and it was small enough that I actually figured out a strategy... which was fun.
An aumtlich puzzle: Under the Mountains : Training Grounds : 1 East. This one is a non-non-DROD-like puzzle, so of course I liked it. It involves clever manipulation of aumtlich from a distance.

However, some of the puzzles included don't work so well with the DROD user-interface. As one example, I had never seen a "rolling block" puzzle before, so the alternating negotiator - mimic characters in its DROD implementation, Under the Mountains : Training Grounds : 1 South, 1 East made no sense to me. I eventually went to a page on the MathsNet site where I could practice this and other rolling block puzzles in a friendlier interface. Also, solvers of Under the Mountains have the added challenge of a scarcity of checkpoints.

Dischorran
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I'm only partway through the second level at the moment, but wanted to give some advance feedback since the hold had the unfortunate timing of being released shortly before Advanced Concepts. As advertised, the hold is largely a collection of classic mazes varying in obscurity, and is light on the DROD bread-and-butter of direct monster manipulation and horde management. Basically, this hold is a direct implementation of the body of work that informed much of Beethro's Brain, and is worth a look by anyone who enjoyed that hold but found it a little too easy.

The puzzles I've seen so far have been cleanly implemented, with the second level being stronger than the first level; the 1-2-3-4-5 maze was particularly well done. The hold is aesthetically pleasing as well, but the lack of checkpoints in the puzzles was, IMHO, a poor decision on the part of the architect.

As far as I know, all traditional puzzles have been credited to their original authors. I'd personally be interested to see a list of the implemented puzzles posted here, since I and presumably others haven't seen some of them before and might be interested in learning more.

Nice work (so far)!

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disoriented
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File: Diso_maze_problem.demo (1.2 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Dischorran wrote:
The puzzles I've seen so far have been cleanly implemented, with the second level being stronger than the first level; the 1-2-3-4-5 maze was particularly well done. The hold is aesthetically pleasing as well, but the lack of checkpoints in the puzzles was, IMHO, a poor decision on the part of the architect.

I'm enjoying the hold a lot so far. Still on Training Grounds at the moment.
I noticed there is a scripting problem on the 1-2-3-4-5 maze that can allow an early exit. (For example see demo)

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[Last edited by disoriented at 11-11-2008 04:39 PM]

RuAdam
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Thank you for the comments. I know that some puzzles may appear a bit akward. I tried to make the puzzles DROD style, and with some puzzles I think it went pretty well. (For example the first level contains no scripting that's involved in puzzles) But when you try to implement non-DROD puzzles, it's unavoidable that some of the will be quite akward in DROD, but I tried my best to explain them.
About the checkpoints all I'll say is that if you think there are few in the current cersion. Than be glad that the beta-testers also shared your opinion. They made me add quite a few additional ones compared to how many checkpoints where in the first versions of the hold .

Ah about the script bug in the 1-2-3-4-5 maze. I looked into it, and saw what the problem was. It's because at one point I had to move the part of the script witch checks if you are at the exit, and I forgot to remove the old one. Sadly I don't know if this could be fixed now, it's probably too late. All I can do is to ask everyone to do it the right way .

And finally I'll post here a list of puzzles found in the hold:

Tahnan
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RuAdam wrote:
Ah about the script bug in the 1-2-3-4-5 maze. I looked into it, and saw what the problem was. It's because at one point I had to move the part of the script witch checks if you are at the exit, and I forgot to remove the old one. Sadly I don't know if this could be fixed now, it's probably too late.

Oh, now there's a tough one. I mean, if an architect had deliberately put a script into a room that allowed one to circumvent the work and thereby get a higher score only if you knew the cheat, the HAs would (surely?) disallow that. If it happens accidentally, then...well, then what? This isn't really an "unintended solution". I'm curious to know how this one plays out.

Tim
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Tahnan wrote:
I mean, if an architect had deliberately put a script into a room that allowed one to circumvent the work and thereby get a higher score only if you knew the cheat, the HAs would (surely?) disallow that. If it happens accidentally, then...well, then what? This isn't really an "unintended solution".

Unintended solution or not, currently the HAs think that Hold Update is needed, if a hold is proved to be uncompletable in the latest stable version. This is not the case here, so there's no need for an update.

As for your other idea, I believe there are easier/better/faster ways to counter "cheats" than hold updating.

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