Ameph
Level: Goblin
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I remember back to a game called 'Trampoline Terror' where you were on a grid and such with Trampolines. I believe there were a few enemies with standard moving set-up.

The Iron Golem can't be killed by normal means. It's made of iron and that's pretty tough stuff!! Not only that, they can trample over any living object (but not tarstuff) and kill it in thier walking.

Thank goodness that they lack in brains. They only move forward in the direction they are facing. They never move diagonal due to thier straight robotic nature. If they reach a wall, snakeskin, tarstuff or gate, they will turn. If it's an even turn, they turn 90 degrees to the left and move in that direction. Odd turns move to the right and move that way.

If they reach a corner, they will follow the corner, regardless of turn number

w g o
w o o
w w w

w o o
w g o
w w w

w o o
w o g
w w w

If they reach a dead end, they simply turn around and head back the way they came.


So how does one delver defeat these simple yet dangerous creations? Simply put. You lead them to a pit or water. They rely on contact. With pits, they fall in and die when they hit the bottom. With water, they fall in and rust to death.

Imagine rooms with gates, snakes and tar as you try to lead these into the pits.

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larrymurk
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Sounds like fun.

Assumedly they'd be activating pressure plates all the while.

Would they activate orbs, trap doors?

Maybe they'd even help move rafts and platforms.

Ameph
Level: Goblin
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I believe they would break cracked and broken orbs without activating them.

Pressure Plates and Trapdoors would indeed fall.

As for rafts and platforms, I'm not sure. It would make for a unique mode of transportation but then again, wouldn't they simply fall off?

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hyperme
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What about Oremites? One touch and any metal gets gobbled up.

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Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

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I like the idea for movement.

My only concern is that killing this creature requires the architect put either a pit (including trap doors) or water in the room, and if they don't, it's impossible. It's not like this is a big deal, since it's already possible to make impossible rooms with what we have now.

However, I'm a little reluctant about a monster that requires, by its very nature, another element in the room. It's one thing if the architect uses oremites to force you to sheathe your sword and use bombs or hot tiles to defeat the monsters. It's another thing if the very presence of the monster will always necessitate the use of another room element to kill it.

Sorry if that sounds overly negative. I really do like the idea you came up with. I only have a slight reservation but could learn to live with it rather easily actually.

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Ameph
Level: Goblin
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I don't see it as much different from some other elements.

For a Serpent to be killed, you need a dead end. WIthout one, it's impossible to kill, no?

For a Brain to function, you need some enemies. Otherwise, it just takes up space, really.

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calamarain
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It is a rather cool idea, definitely. One query - is a sword a suitable obstacle for deflection? If so, one could maneuver the golem that way.

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Ameph
Level: Goblin
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Sword would be placed up for deflection. It's as in tapping it in the front and it'll move like it was walking into a wall. Otherwise, it'll step on you.

As for Oremites and Hot Spots, they would kill them as well. Oremites eat metal and Hot Spots melt them into a pile of slag.

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hartleyhair
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I quite like the idea.

Ameph wrote:
If it's an even turn, they turn 90 degrees to the left and move in that direction. Odd turns move to the right and move that way.

My only suggestion is that you have this alternate every five turns (as with Serpents) or, if brained, every turn.

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Sillyman
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Yeah, turn like a serpent sounds good. And if it runs into an orb, it should activate it. Sword should seem like a wall to it, and oremites... gnaw away at it after a few turns.

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Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

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Ameph wrote:
I don't see it as much different from some other elements.

For a Serpent to be killed, you need a dead end. WIthout one, it's impossible to kill, no?

For a Brain to function, you need some enemies. Otherwise, it just takes up space, really.

The difference in my mind is that those are extremely open to whatever you want. You can trap a snake with pits, water, walls, monsters, decoys, whatever. And brains can work through any monster on the screen. The range of possibilities to kill the Iron Golems is very narrow.

But, like I said, I like the idea and this is just a very minor qualm that I can overlook but felt I should mention anyway.

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Sometimes they don't make much sense.
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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 12-06-2007 10:08 PM]

Ameph
Level: Goblin
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Really? I'm seeing that pits, water, oremites, bombs and hot spots that can kill Iron Golems. I believe briars would just make them immobile.

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zex20913
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Maybe making them immobile would kill them too...like sharks.

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Mattcrampy
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...what if they couldn't survive walking off a raised door?

Alternatively, it might be fun if they prevented doors they are standing on from rising.

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Jeff_Ray...
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How about making them unrequired for a room? Like wubbas, they can only be killed with certain elements, so we should make it unrequired.

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zonhin
Level: Delver

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If they were unrequired, what would they do? Wubbas can block you from leaving. How would these guys help or hinder if they were unrequired?

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[Last edited by zonhin at 12-07-2007 03:43 PM]

Dex Stewart
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They would be part of the puzzle before the room is completed.

Someone Else
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Mattcrampy wrote:Alternatively, it might be fun if they prevented doors they are standing on from rising.

I like this idea a lot. It would make a lot more orb / pressure plate puzzles, unfortunately.

Ameph
Level: Goblin
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I don't like the idea of making them unrequired. Otherwise, they would just be used for pressure plate switches and the door opening and closing (I like that idea. A monster so heavy that it prevents doors from closing).

Also...the idea of making them stop completely to kill them would also work in a way to kill it without a pit. You trap one in a dead end with your sword and it dies because it believes that it's trapped forever.

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Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

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I like the addition of being able to kill them by simply preventing movement. But, just to clarify, in your mind the Iron Golem will not walk onto a square occupied by your sword? I just want to be clear on that point because, even though wubbas won't move under your sword despite being invulndrable to them, serpents, adders, and rattlers (all forced to move, just like the Iron Golems) all move onto your sword.

And, to be clear, when I originally posted my concern over the limited methods of killing it, the only methods mentioned were pits and water. I like the idea that oremites can kill them and I'm indifferent to bombs. I actually think it'd be interesting to have a monster that can survive a bomb blast but not oremites.

Also, now this may sound lame, but maybe they should tromp through briar, not get stopped by it. Right now, the only method we have to push briars back is bombs. I kind of like the idea of pushing briars back using this kind of element that the player can only moderately control.

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Sometimes they don't make much sense.
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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 12-07-2007 08:55 PM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

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A monster that can't be blown up by bombs...
Maybe bombs could do something else to them, like push them away without changing their movement direction.

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

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Oh, also, when an Iron Golem steps on oremites, do they become a pile of rubble or completely gone? It'd be easy to say that they weren't made 100 out of iron so the rubble could still be there, or they could even kill the Iron Golem the moment it steps on the oremites, but they then take 5 turns to eat the entire mound.

Any preferences?

____________________________
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Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

---

[Last edited by Garlonuss at 12-07-2007 10:29 PM]

Someone Else
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I would say they die right away, and on the spawn cycle, all piles on oremites are destroyed.

Ameph
Level: Goblin
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I was a bit sketical about briars. Would they really stop an iron golem?

As for walking onto the sword, I believe it would just see it as an obsticle and not walk through it.

Finally, I would say that Brains have no effect on Iron Golems. Metal is too thick to send messages to it's brain.

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hartleyhair
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Ameph wrote:
Finally, I would say that Brains have no effect on Iron Golems. Metal is too thick to send messages to it's brain.

I don't quite agree with this, as brains do affect every other monster.

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Daneel
Level: Delver
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Would these things move every turn, or just turns on which you are in front of them. I think that the latter would be interesting since it gives more opportunities to manipulate them.

Ameph
Level: Goblin
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What would a brain do to affect an iron golem? It would lead it right to you and since it's immune to your sword, kill you with ease.

As for iron golems moving when they see you, that would prevent them from moving correctly through rooms. It'll get stuck in a dead end and since it doesn't see you, it stops moving.

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Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

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I have ideas, which may be mixed.
1. Make it like a 1-long serpent (for movement patterns).
2. Make it turn towards you each time.
3. Make it avoid pits and water, as brains see them as obstacles. (it would still walk over hot tiles and oremites).
4. Make it pathfind to you, but still only turn when it runs into walls.
5. Enable it to move diagonally, but only when it runs into walls. Suggestion 2 or 4 would have to be in effect to have this work. When the brain is killed, if it was moving diagonally, it would still turn 90 degrees, leading to interesting puzzles like killing it in a space like this:

W.W
...
..W

6. Allow it to find its way out of dead ends.

Personally, I like 5 and 4 best. However, if 4 is too hard to code, 2 would work. I also think 3 would be good.

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[Last edited by Someone Else at 12-09-2007 04:27 AM]

Sillyman
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Ameph wrote:
What would a brain do to affect an iron golem? It would lead it right to you and since it's immune to your sword, kill you with ease.

As for iron golems moving when they see you, that would prevent them from moving correctly through rooms. It'll get stuck in a dead end and since it doesn't see you, it stops moving.

Noo... A brain does the same thing that it does to serpents. Instead of changing which direction it turns when bumping into an obstacle every 5 turns, it changes every turn.

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schep
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Sillyman wrote:
Noo... A brain does the same thing that it does to serpents. Instead of changing which direction it turns when bumping into an obstacle every 5 turns, it changes every turn.

Brained serpents don't have any direction preference and don't care about the turn number. They just always move toward the player. But yeah, if the golem can't move diagonally, it would be somewhat easy to just run away from it, much like a brained short red serpent.