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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Museum of themes (Linchpin, manipulation, and horde)
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Museum of themes (0)  
Thank you all for the feedback.
I uploaded a new version with AtW 2S and 2S2E slightly modified.

Kalin, MoP 1E was brilliant! I "updated" my challenge with your solution, but I think I will leave all of the decoy potions. I'd like the room not to be too finicky.

Xindaris:
Ah! 1S1W: Yes, I am the one who opened the thread, see here:
Click here to view the secret text
. Once I figured it was not a bug, I decided to exploit it a bit.
AtW, thanks for the comments, I'll leave both rooms. Also, cool solution for 1E, I actually clear the second wave from the north, as I use the rock golems corpses to protect me, together with evil eyes.

Also, for Xindaris, I would like to ask you for a favor, since I think you are one of the best Drod scripting player out there. I tried to script the challenges myself, and I failed miserably.
Would you be willing to script the challenges for me?

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 04-30-2024 08:36 PM]
04-30-2024 at 08:36 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+1)  
Sure, describe what you want some challenges to check for and I can at least give it a go. Sometimes it's necessary (or at least very helpful) to alter the room to make it easier for the scripting to work, or be clever about what the scripting actually, specifically checks.

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04-30-2024 at 11:06 PM
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Kalin
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File: Museum of themes.demo (27.5 KB)
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+1)  
Red-XIII wrote: Kalin, MoP 1E was brilliant!
I was so certain you would say I broke the room, but now I looked at your screenshot and see that bit was intended. Anyway, I went back and did it in even more brilliant ways.
Click here to view the secret text

MoP: 1N1W
I spent forever trying to do something that obviously wouldn't work.
Click here to view the secret text

MoP: 1W
Not sure if this is intended or not.
Click here to view the secret text

MoP: 1S2E
Not too hard without the challenge.

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04-30-2024 at 11:49 PM
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Xindaris
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File: Museum of themes.demo (9.3 KB)
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+1)  
Beat Against the wickedly 2E and managed its challenge. It was pretty hard until I finally found a way to mostly separate out the "sections" of the horde.

And, this challenge isn't too hard to script, so I went ahead and coded it up:
Click here to view the secret text

This makes the following assumptions:
1) "Cross the bridge" means "stand on a bridge tile at all"
2) The player is supposed to finish clearing the room afterward to actually be awarded the challenge.
Also, make sure to actually name the challenge after pasting it in.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-01-2024 06:39 PM]
05-01-2024 at 06:38 PM
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Red-XIII
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Xindaris wrote:
Beat Against the wickedly 2E and managed its challenge. It was pretty hard until I finally found a way to mostly separate out the "sections" of the horde.

And, this challenge isn't too hard to script, so I went ahead and coded it up:
Click here to view the secret text

This makes the following assumptions:
1) "Cross the bridge" means "stand on a bridge tile at all"
2) The player is supposed to finish clearing the room afterward to actually be awarded the challenge.
Also, make sure to actually name the challenge after pasting it in.

Thank you! For AtW 2E, your assumptions are correct. But what do you mean "after pasting it"? I tried it to copy this text into the scripting command list but it didn't work.
Feel free to create a copy of the hold and working directly there, if that's easier to you.

About the other challenges, here are the ones that I think are ready to be scripted (almost all of them).

Obey your master
Click here to view the secret text


Master of puppets:
Click here to view the secret text


Eureka!
Click here to view the secret text


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05-01-2024 at 07:12 PM
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Red-XIII
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Kalin wrote:
Red-XIII wrote: Kalin, MoP 1E was brilliant!
I was so certain you would say I broke the room, but now I looked at your screenshot and see that bit was intended. Anyway, I went back and did it in even more brilliant ways.
Click here to view the secret text

MoP: 1N1W
I spent forever trying to do something that obviously wouldn't work.
Click here to view the secret text

MoP: 1W
Not sure if this is intended or not.
Click here to view the secret text

MoP: 1S2E
Not too hard without the challenge.

MoP 1E, Master manipulation indeed! However, I still want to leave all of the decoys, such that the player has some leeway, and once he reads the scroll, the player is amazed by the minimum decoys necessary to clear the room.
I would like to call it "Kalin's master manipulation" if that's ok to you.

MoP 1W, that's actually not intended, I tried to do it like you did during testing, and failed. Since it is definitely not trivial, and Xindaris found my solution, I think I will leave it like it is.

MoP 1N1W, one of the first room I built, everything was intended expect some detail on the execution (obviously).

MoP 1S2E, I agree that the non-challenge solution is not that hard, but the challenge is a bit fiddly, so I don't want to have that as a main solution.

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05-01-2024 at 07:19 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+3)  
Right, okay, I don't know how this is on Mac but on Windows at least:
-If you want to copy and paste code inside the current code window, you use the usual ctrl+C, ctrl+V. This uses some kind of "internal clipboard" which can't move code from one character to another, which can be inconvenient.
-If you want to copy code as text into your computer's regular clipboard, you use ctrl+B; to paste from your computer's clipboard (if the text is formatted properly) then you use ctrl+shift+B to paste it in. This is also how you would copy code from one character to another.

So, if you copy the code in the secret above, then open the character's command and use ctrl+shift+B, it should paste it right in.


...Well, I already made a "my own copy" of the hold to do the challenge coding in anyway, so maybe I can just attach that once I'm done instead of posting a bunch of code in the thread :P


EDIT again, some feedback on these challenges:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-01-2024 09:22 PM]
05-01-2024 at 08:44 PM
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Kalin
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Scripting the challenge in OyM:1N1E is a two person job. Note that scripts think firetraps are stabs.

Citizen 1
Click here to view the secret text

Citizen 2
Click here to view the secret text



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05-02-2024 at 12:57 AM
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Xindaris
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That doesn't achieve the challenge for two reasons:
1) A snake just shrinking due to a single instance of hot-tile damage (but surviving!) will trigger "event monster burned"
2) If the player stabs a snake for all of its damage and kills it, that script won't detect it.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-02-2024 01:15 AM]
05-02-2024 at 01:14 AM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+1)  
This script works for OYM 1N1E. You only need one character.

  Wait for entity Player 34,23,34,23
  Wait for event Serpent smashed
  Wait 0
  Wait for event Serpent smashed
  Challenge completed OYM 1N1E


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05-02-2024 at 02:16 AM
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Kalin
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Xindaris wrote:
That doesn't achieve the challenge for two reasons:
1) A snake just shrinking due to a single instance of hot-tile damage (but surviving!) will trigger "event monster burned"
The second snake trapped needs to be full length or it won't get trapped. It may be possible to shrink a snake slightly without trapping or killing either, but it looks much harder than the normal challenge.
2) If the player stabs a snake for all of its damage and kills it, that script won't detect it.
Can't stab a snake until you hit the pressure plate. But writing this made me realize it is possible to kill an adder without stabbing or burning it.

New improved script (only one citizen needed)
Click here to view the secret text
I'm pretty sure there's no other way to stop a live, brained snake from following you. (Adders aren't included in the entity list.)

EDIT: Nuntar's script works too.

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[Last edited by Kalin at 05-02-2024 02:21 AM]
05-02-2024 at 02:20 AM
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Xindaris
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Look at me, not realizing there's a "serpent smashed" event! That should probably work.

EDIT: This works if they don't die to hot tiles, I think. I infer that's okay because it's the expected way to kill them in the first place?

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-02-2024 06:02 PM]
05-02-2024 at 05:08 PM
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Red-XIII
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Thank you all for your help!

Here are some details about the challenges:

Click here to view the secret text


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There's just this one, just this rock.
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05-02-2024 at 07:10 PM
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Xindaris
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File: Museum of themes challenge scripting.hold (29.5 KB)
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+4)  
Okay, I've attached my copy of the hold with the challenge scripts I've done so far built in; you should be able to just copy the part of the room with the script character(s) on it then paste those tiles into the actual room in each case. I think it has every room but Master 1S1W and Eureka 2N at this point. You will need to go into each script and actually name the challenges; most are currently just called "a".

Some more replies to the above...

Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-04-2024 04:27 PM]
05-02-2024 at 08:43 PM
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Nuntar
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Xindaris wrote: ...with the caveat that it has to be alive on that tile for the script to detect it, I think. So I'm not sure that idea quite works if the firetrap should be on before the monster is brought to it.

It will work. Don't forget that firetraps are not continuous, but act similar to a sword-strike every turn, after all monsters and scripts have been processed.

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05-02-2024 at 10:41 PM
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Kalin
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Here's a script for MoP:1S1W that correctly handles my solution. I'm pretty sure you can't wake that eye and get a different eye to the firetrap without anyone stepping on a pressure plate.
EDIT3: Nope, I was wrong, you can push the eye at (9,14) into the firetrap after stabbing the bottom eye. I guess you'll have to change the challenge eye to a roach after all.
EDIT4: No, the only change needed to make my script work is putting a trapdoor under the spear token. Does that break your intended solution?
Click here to view the secret text

EDIT: First version failed if the player moved immediately after the eye died.

EDIT2:
Script for Eureka:2N
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Kalin at 05-03-2024 06:52 PM]
05-03-2024 at 12:38 AM
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Red-XIII
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Thank you all again for the scripts you are providing!
I uploaded a new version with all of them, and all but one seem to work.

MoP 1S1W: this works, but I did not need the trapdoor under the spear (also, it breaks my solution) and I had to add the commands to wait for clean room and to reach a certain point, since you need to exit the room as well. I think it works, but could you give me a feedback? Here's the final script.
Click here to view the secret text


MoP 1S2E: I understand your point, Xindaris, and I followed your suggestion. However, the script is not working. For every other room with demos, as soon as I added the script, I received the challenge. Not for this one, so there must something off.

What's left:
testing the remaining rooms (and those I modified) in AtW, MoP, and the level nightmare (plus one challenge there).

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05-04-2024 at 02:14 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+1)  
That's a derp on my part. The "wait for item" command should be looking for Yellow Door (open) but is currently looking for just "Yellow Door", as in any of them being closed.

...Actually, it needs some more tweaking now that I'm looking at it. I'll get a repaired version together soon.

EDIT: Okay, fixed version in the hold attached above. It was not only looking for closed doors instead of open, it also only looked on the exact turn the room was cleared instead of continuing to check afterward. I think I somehow mentally registered that I was done coding that when I wasn't.

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Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-04-2024 04:28 PM]
05-04-2024 at 04:08 PM
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Red-XIII
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Xindaris wrote:
That's a derp on my part. The "wait for item" command should be looking for Yellow Door (open) but is currently looking for just "Yellow Door", as in any of them being closed.

...Actually, it needs some more tweaking now that I'm looking at it. I'll get a repaired version together soon.

EDIT: Okay, fixed version in the hold attached above. It was not only looking for closed doors instead of open, it also only looked on the exact turn the room was cleared instead of continuing to check afterward. I think I somehow mentally registered that I was done coding that when I wasn't.

Now it works perfectly, thank you!

I uploaded the hold with the corrected script.

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05-04-2024 at 06:11 PM
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NoahT
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Red-XIII wrote:
Ah!
Click here to view the secret text
I've tried to figure out the intended solution to 2S1E but I'm not seeing how to make it work.

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My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text

05-29-2024 at 11:12 PM
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Red-XIII
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NoahT wrote:
I've tried to figure out the intended solution to 2S1E but I'm not seeing how to make it work.

Thank you for this reply, as it forced me to go back and play this room again. I did not have a demo for it, so I had to redo it, and it took me over 20 minutes, which means two things: 1) I have really short memory; 2) the solution I originally intended is actually not trivial and I like it a lot. However, I like Kalin’s solution a lot too, and I cannot decide which one is harder. I would like to add a challenge for the hardest solution (mine or Kalin’s). Which one do you think is harder?
Hint for the intended solution, Ah! 2S1E:
Click here to view the secret text


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There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 05-31-2024 06:34 PM]
05-30-2024 at 07:50 PM
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NoahT
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Red-XIII wrote:
Hint for the intended solution, Ah! 2S1E:
Click here to view the secret text
I think I may need some additional pointers here, and so far the intended solution seems to be the harder one.

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And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text

05-30-2024 at 10:31 PM
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Red-XIII
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NoahT wrote:
Red-XIII wrote:
Hint for the intended solution, Ah! 2S1E:
Click here to view the secret text
I think I may need some additional pointers here, and so far the intended solution seems to be the harder one.

Explicit hints for 2S1E:
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text


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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 05-31-2024 05:40 PM]
05-31-2024 at 05:15 PM
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Red-XIII
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New update:

I added a challenge for Nightmare 1S1W and I scripted both that one and the one in 2S. For the script I exploited the same concept Xindaris used, so I think the scripts are fine, but I humbly request for a confirmation.

I added a challenge for MoP 1W, but I was not able to script it. Could you give me a hand?

Testing and feedback remaining:

MoP: 1S, 1S1E, 1S2E. For 1S1W I am deciding how to enforce both my solution and Kalin’s solution as two separate challenges.

AtW: 2S2E, 2S, 1S1E.

Nightmare: all of it. Warning, the challenge in 2S is probably the hardest thing I ever built.

Any additional feedback is obviously welcome!

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 07-01-2024 06:47 PM]
05-31-2024 at 06:36 PM
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NoahT
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icon Re: Museum of themes (0)  
Maybe the intended solution isn't actually tougher after all.
Click here to view the secret text


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My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text

05-31-2024 at 07:21 PM
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Red-XIII
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I still haven't figured out which solution should be a challenge for Ah! 1S1W, do other testers have an opinion on that? (mine: see hints on the post above. Kalins: trapping a goblin in the SE alcove).

Could you give me an "ok" for the scripting I used for the challenges for Nightmare 1S1W and 2S?

MoP 1S1W: I decided to fix Kalin's solution and leave the original intended way for the challenge.

MoP 1W: could you help me scripting the challenge I added? (the roach queen must not reach the orthosquares).

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06-09-2024 at 04:28 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Museum of themes (+2)  
Red-XIII wrote: MoP 1W: could you help me scripting the challenge I added? (the roach queen must not reach the orthosquares).
Here you go:
Click here to view the secret text


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06-19-2024 at 11:39 PM
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Red-XIII
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Kalin wrote:
Red-XIII wrote: MoP 1W: could you help me scripting the challenge I added? (the roach queen must not reach the orthosquares).
Here you go:
Click here to view the secret text

It works perfectly, thank you very much!

Do you also have some comments about the modified MoP 1S1W and Ah! 2S1E?
For Ah!, do you have some suggestions for enforcing your solution as a challenge without making it obvious?

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06-24-2024 at 06:54 PM
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Kalin
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Red-XIII wrote:
Do you also have some comments about the modified MoP 1S1W and Ah! 2S1E?
I don't think I ever figured out your intended solution in MoP:1S1W. Your script gives me the challenge when I do it my way.

For Ah!, do you have some suggestions for enforcing your solution as a challenge without making it obvious?
I had to look up your solution (I've never actually tried doing it), but I guess something like "keep Halph away from the goblin" would not be too spoilery. Or maybe "keep the goblin in the SW half of the room" and fail if he sets foot in (4,9)-(8,9).

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06-25-2024 at 06:56 PM
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Red-XIII
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Kalin wrote:
Red-XIII wrote:
Do you also have some comments about the modified MoP 1S1W and Ah! 2S1E?
I don't think I ever figured out your intended solution in MoP:1S1W. Your script gives me the challenge when I do it my way.

I don't understand, how can you manipulate the ww with the force arrows trap now? I re updated the hold just to be sure.

Thank you for the Ah! suggestion, I'll try to implement something.

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06-25-2024 at 08:16 PM
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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Museum of themes (Linchpin, manipulation, and horde)
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