Elswyyr
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Is it possible to play Journey to Rooted Hold or The City Beneath in the Gunthro's Epic Blunder engine? And if so, how?

rman
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You need to connect to CaravelNet (in Settings). Then you can go to Play Game -> Change Location, choose Journey to Rooted Hold (or The City Beneath), and click Download. Obviously, for this to work, you must buy JtRH (or TCB) first (if you haven’t yet done it).

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GI Joe
Level: Goblin
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I have the standalone JtRH, which I just redownloaded.

I also just bought Gunthro.

What are the advantages of playing JtRH in the Gunthro engine as opposed to playing it in its standalone version?

Nuntar
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Each successive game engine includes interface improvements and playability features. Off the top of my head:

* Right-clicking on any tile shows its contents, not just its coordinates (introduced in TCB). Some objects and monsters will also give further useful information, e.g. a snake will tell you how long it is.
* Left-clicking on bombs shows their explosion radius (introduced in TCB). This will come in useful in JtRH... oh, shall we say quite often?
* Opened green and blue doors remain visible (introduced in TCB).
* Tar transparency is available in-game without installing a mod (introduced in GatEB).

Against that, you lose each game's unique title screen music and, in my opinion, something of the authenticity of the atmosphere. (I don't know whether playing JtRH in a later engine will actually use the new room styles -- I think it does?) For me, that authenticity is more important, so I played all the way through JtRH in its own engine, and I'm doing the same with TCB.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 09-01-2013 06:19 PM]

navithmastero
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It's a little bit different in that the hold is slightly modified from the original if you play it in GatEB (or, I assume, TCB) - there are lights in some rooms, and the stylesets have been changed in some levels too.

-nm

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karlpopper
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Nuntar wrote:
Against that, you lose each game's unique title screen music and, in my opinion, something of the authenticity of the atmosphere. (I don't know whether playing JtRH in a later engine will actually use the new room styles -- I think it does?) For me, that authenticity is more important, so I played all the way through JtRH in its own engine, and I'm doing the same with TCB.

I recently completed TCB using its native engine v3.0, and was rewarded with a long, rambling text by Erik .... (it was 4am so maybe it seemed to ramble more than it really does, but laconic doesn't seem like the right adjective for EH) .... and finally the famous secret.

Q1. This sowed a seed of doubt with me: I used the same v3.0 engine to conquer JtRH. Did I miss anything at the end?

I don't have the 2.0 engine installed, but I'll do it if I missed something.

Q2. Have I understood correctly that this seed of doubt will be quenched with the upcoming 5.0 engine, that will do all the right things to make older holds play as exactly as they should?


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76th SkyWatcher
When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

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[Last edited by karlpopper at 04-19-2014 07:57 PM]

skell
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karlpopper wrote:
Q1. This sowed a seed of doubt with me: I used the same v3.0 engine to conquer JtRH. Did I miss anything at the end?

Q2. Have I understood correctly that this seed of doubt will be quenched with the upcoming 5.0 engine, that will do all the right things to make older holds play as exactly as they should?

It was a planned feature but to be honest I don't currently remember if it is in.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-20-2014 03:58 AM]

mrimer
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Make sure to export your player profile with JtRH progress now so that you can import it into 5.0 when it's out. Then you can complete JtRH quickly from your imported player progress in the 5.0 engine and see the credits that you would see, had you played it in the 2.0 engine.

____________________________
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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-20-2014 04:00 AM]

karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

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Thanks Mike and Skell: there was a point hidden between the lines here that I figured out by trying it.

If you play JtRH in the TCB engine, there is no way to go backwards; JtRH thinks it can't read .player files created by newer versions of the engine.

There's a long discussion thread about this

jsmith45 wrote:
Long thread about client and data versioning issues.

And the executive summary is that if TSS is ever released (Pearls seems doubtful that it will be in our lifetimes) all will be perfect.

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76th SkyWatcher
When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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I wonder why Pearls would say that. Incoming meteor?

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Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Pearls
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mrimer wrote:
I wonder why Pearls would say that. Incoming meteor?

Check my recent Illumination post, I think.

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Hey, w-wait, that's the guy who shamelessly promotes his own...

karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

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Pearls wrote:
You guys are never gonna see this game. Mrimer is waiting on at least one to master the hold, and no one's pulled this off yet, and probably never will. Larrymurk's puzzles are too mean, and mrimer doesn't have the heart to take them out.

In my fevered imagination there was a Caravel conference call
like this: Caravel Beta status meeting

During which Pearls says: "I can't even count the number of rooms in this game, yet alone complete it...."

(Remember, I didn't know that Mike's silence was due to non-DROD irl factors)

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76th SkyWatcher
When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

Zizzencs
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Okay - I'll just begin replaying KDD2.0, JtRH, TCB and GatEB, all in the DROD4 engine. When all of them are completed, I'll wait for DROD5. After that, import my DROD4 player's progression to DROD5 and I'll be able to watch the endings of all games in all their glories.

Am I right?

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Zizzencs wrote:
Okay - I'll just begin replaying KDD2.0, JtRH, TCB and GatEB, all in the DROD4 engine. When all of them are completed, I'll wait for DROD5. After that, import my DROD4 player's progression to DROD5 and I'll be able to watch the endings of all games in all their glories.

Am I right?

Yes, that's correct. However, you might actually want to wait to replay those games until you can do it in DROD5. In typical George Lucas style*, the new release will feel even more authentic than the original or previously updated experiences.

*Not "Han shot first" style.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-28-2014 10:11 PM]

karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

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I just came across this and it's appropriate to link here.

Alex Diener's YouTube walkthrough of Journey to Rooted Hold is excellent, and he ran with the 2.0 engine. He takes a pause as he completes the game and lets the full credit sequence roll: it's 10 minutes long.
I suppose, technically, you should watch this only if you've completed the game.
Journey to Rooted Hold - Credits


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76th SkyWatcher
When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

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I wanted to confirm here that all is working as expected with the new engine.

I exported a player file from DROD 3.0 (the engine with which I played JtRH), and the first thing I did after installing The second Sky was to import that player file.

After playing with the main new hold awhile I went back to
check Journey to Rooted Hold.

I found that I had to do two things:

A. Install Journey to Rooted Hold
B. Import my player file again

When I imported my player file for the second time, TSS noticed
that JtRH was there and told me it was importing and verifying
the savegame state.

Then I was able to restore to the end of JtRH and after the congratulations on completing the hold message, I was able to see the full credits.

As far as I can see the main design goal is met here: I should be able to uninstall my other Drod versions, and do everything with the One Engine to Rule Them All.

p.s. It's cool to be able to click on doors and see the associated orbs in JtRH.

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When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

KevG
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Having a problem with JTRH. The game says I have only 97% completion and the Master Wall is back. I have looked over all 25 levels and they all say I have completed all secret rooms. Doesn't affect my playing since I can still restore to other rooms in the Dreamplane. However, I figure I'd mention it since it seems like there's something wrong.

Tuttle
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Restore to the end of level 25 and walk out the final stairs again to re-conquer the hold. Does that fix it?

KevG
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It was worth a shot, but I'm still at 97%.

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
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Hello, I have a question regarding this.

I bought KDD 2.0, JRTH, and TCB a while back when GOG.com was having a sale, and I just bought Gunthro and the Epic Blunder.

But I'm not sure how to actually play them in Second Sky. I haven't even installed Gunthro yet because I'm not sure if that's a necessary step. An earlier post mentions downloading them from the holds menu, but I'd already downloaded the Gunthro demo by that point so the download button is greyed out. (Unless it got updated after I bough the game without me noticing? If it did, how would I be able to tell short of actually playing through to the end of the demo?) I'm also pretty sure the GOG purchases don't go into the system, but I recall seeing a post that I could send my e-mail receipt to get them added in manually.

Basically I'm confused about what I need to do here. It's not urgent because I have 700 rooms of Second Sky to go through, but I'd like to know what the process is.

Tuttle
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When you bought Gunthro and the Epic Blunder, you would've received an activation link by email. Make sure you use that to add it to your forum account (and get an extra month of CaravelNet).

Once it's added to your account, as long as you have an active CaravelNet subscription it will show up as a download option with all the other downloads in the Change Location screen. You get a month of free CNet with each purchase, so you can do that now. [1] I'm pretty sure updated holds are tagged in the list, but you can always delete it and re-download it to be sure if you haven't played it yet -- you won't have any demos or saves in it to lose.

The games you bought from GOG don't come with a neat link to add them to your account, but I believe if you email your receipt and forum account name to support@caravelgames and ask nicely they can make it work.

Also, be aware that Gunthro is aimed at newcomers while The Second Sky is aimed more at veterans. So if you get thoroughly stumped on TSS, starting with Gunthro might be more enjoyable.


[1] In-game hold downloads, official and unofficial, are a CNet feature. Once your CNet expires you can still play the ones you downloaded, but anything new needs to be downloaded from the web site and there's no standalone download for the official holds. Or you can just renew CNet, which is a pretty good deal if you're actively playing the game and gives you access to chat, high scores, in-game hint links and stuff.

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[Last edited by Tuttle at 06-22-2014 11:32 PM]

Dragon Fogel
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Okay, I've clicked the activation link. I can be sure of that because I got the additional month's membership and I've downloaded Flood Warning.

I'm just not sure if I've somehow ended up with a demo copy of Gunthro after all that. Looking at the free 4.0 download, that one's titled "Gunthro and the Epic Blunder (Demo)" and the one I have downloaded in 5.0 isn't, but on the other hand the JRTH and TCB downloads I have aren't marked with "Demo" either. And I haven't sent my receipt along yet, so if I actually downloaded those as full games then there's a bug somewhere.

So basically I'm confused. I'll send that e-mail, though; that should be helpful no matter what's going on.

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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You can only add the official holds via CaravelNet - there is no official (or I presume legal) way to download the hold file of any of the main games (JtRH, GatEB or TSS).

As Tuttle mentioned you need to have an active CNet subscription to download these holds directly from the game. What he apparently failed to mention is that once you activate your subscription, you need to enter your Caravel Net details into the game settings - your username and key which you can generate from your profile screen.

It seems your CNet is active, so:
1. Go to your profile
2. Click the "Caravel Net" tab
3. Click "Request a new key".
4. Open TSS
5. Go to options
6. type in your username and paste the key
7. Then, when you go to Change Location screen you should see a list of all the holds including the official ones.

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Dragon Fogel
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Yeah, I entered my key already. I grabbed a bunch of Smitemaster's Selections.

What I'm confused about is whether the Gunthro hold I have in my list is the full version or the demo version. In the free version of 4.0, the hold is listed as "Gunthro and the Epic Blunder (Demo)"; the hold I have in 5.0 is listed as "Gunthro and the Epic Blunder". I'm not sure if that means it's the full version or if the "(Demo)" is something specific to playing in the free version of 4.0.

Adding to my confusion: On a whim, I downloaded the JtRH and TCB holds in the list, thinking they'd be demos - because I bought those from GOG and hadn't sent an email asking to get them linked. Those, however, don't have "(Demo)" in the hold title either.

So this suggests to me that either the demo versions aren't clearly marked as such, or I somehow downloaded the full versions without directly ordering them. The latter would be a pretty significant issue for you guys, so I'm hoping that isn't it; I just want to know which versions I have and if there's a way I can figure that out other than playing through and seeing if I get an "end-of-demo" message.

mrimer
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You can't download the demo versions in 5.0 -- only the full versions of previous games. I seem to recall linking your order to your user account, but I could be wrong.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Demo holds are ONLY available in the demo versions of the game.

You can't possibly have demo version of GatEB, JtRH or TCB in TSS. If you can download a hold in TSS after connecting to the CNet it implies one of these things:

1. The hold is free
2. The hold is in Beta and you were invited and accepted the beta invite
3. You have purchased that game/Smitemaster Selection

So, to reiterate. You can only play a demo hold if you download and install the demo version of the game.

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Dragon Fogel
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mrimer wrote:
You can't download the demo versions in 5.0 -- only the full versions of previous games. I seem to recall linking your order to your user account, but I could be wrong.

Thank you, that clears that up. I'm still a bit confused about how it happened, but I understand the situation better now.

I'd be surprised if you enabled them for me considering I ordered from GOG a month ago and wasn't signed up here at the time - I only signed up yesterday and sent the email with my receipt today. (And I can't download KDD 2.0 or The Choice, I have the executable with them from the GOG bundle but they're not available for download in 5.0.) Obviously, because of those facts, I wasn't expecting the games to be linked to my account, so I naturally assumed the holds I was downloading were demos and now you see why I was so confused.

Thanks for enabling them, whatever the reason. Luckily, I've paid for all the games, so I have nothing to feel guilty about in enjoying them. (Except all the time I'm spending playing DROD instead of doing productive things, but that's a burden I can bear.)

bomber50
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It seems I have access to the Gunthro and The Epic Blunder hold in TSS despite having never having actually bought that game yet. Is this intentional?

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Well, that was a great bug.

Fixed.

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DezzTech
Level: Smiter
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Schik wrote: Well, that was a great bug.

I guess you could say that was... an Epic Blunder



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