Announcement: Please read the Rules Topic for some general rules and etiquette before using the Hints and Solutions system.


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Hints and Solutions : The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West
New Topic Post Reply
Poster Message
Fang
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged
icon The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
There are quite a lot of things in that room:

1: The roach queen that escapes, if done at the earliest cannot reach the safe zone before spawning 7 roaches

2: The queen that escapes and the queen that lets the other escape are both on black squares so they'll never be on the middle of that safe zone

3: Managing both roaches and queens in that environment is asking to lose

So then come the questions:

1: Any way to manage the queens without them spawning roaches?

2: Any way to make the queen change floor colors so as to lead her in the safe zone (without using a roach)?

3: Are the four corners used?

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein
07-02-2014 at 10:21 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 898
Registered: 07-18-2009
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
I haven't opened the room up in TSS, so I may be forgetting something, but
Click here to view the secret text


Also, it looks like the queen that lets out the second will die on a hot tile, so you should still only have to manage one, right?

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.
07-02-2014 at 10:27 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Fang
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein
07-02-2014 at 10:37 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 898
Registered: 07-18-2009
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+2)  
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.
07-02-2014 at 10:56 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Fang
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 174
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
Click here to view the secret text


Edit: Yeah, that's all I was missing. MOAR finished!

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

[Last edited by Fang at 07-02-2014 11:04 PM]
07-02-2014 at 11:01 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
robin
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 765
Registered: 09-01-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
quote:
blorx1 wrote:
I haven't opened the room up in TSS, so I may be forgetting something, but
Click here to view the secret text


Also, it looks like the queen that lets out the second will die on a hot tile, so you should still only have to manage one, right?


How does one do this?

____________________________
Click here to view the secret text

07-04-2014 at 08:42 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
bwross
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 376
Registered: 04-17-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
For the secret question... see Fang's response and the follow ups. For the other question, that's more a statement of fact.

[Last edited by bwross at 07-04-2014 08:49 PM]
07-04-2014 at 08:48 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
robin
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 765
Registered: 09-01-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
It's the secret question.

I've read Fang's post first, and then posted a question.

____________________________
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by robin at 07-04-2014 09:11 PM]
07-04-2014 at 09:00 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
bwross
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 376
Registered: 04-17-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+2)  
It's just that it can't be said much better:

Click here to view the secret text

07-04-2014 at 09:14 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
robin
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 765
Registered: 09-01-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
quote:
bwross wrote:
It's just that it can't be said much better:

Click here to view the secret text



my apollogies, I understand it now,

First queen is going according plan,
but the second queen, I'm one move short for the safe-spot.

And waiting a turn at the start of the room, will make my first queen fail.


____________________________
Click here to view the secret text

07-04-2014 at 09:46 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1067
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+2)  
I had the same problem.

Click here to view the secret text

07-04-2014 at 11:26 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
McLaren0109
Level: Goblin
Avatar
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 05-26-2010
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
If I switch to the first white field, then I can shove it in a safe place, but the second, too, need to switch and get an odd number of moves that can not be done through the loop.
08-03-2014 at 10:14 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts ICQ Status Quote Reply
McLaren0109
Level: Goblin
Avatar
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 05-26-2010
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
quote:
McLaren0109 wrote:
If I switch to the first white field, then I can shove it in a safe place, but the second, too, need to switch and get an odd number of moves that can not be done through the loop.


First queen may need to hover, so it 30 th move left on the pressure plate.

EDIT: No, it's wrong.

One turn is not enough...

EDIT: Plugged the second in the south-western corner!

[Last edited by McLaren0109 at 08-03-2014 10:36 AM]
08-03-2014 at 10:18 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts ICQ Status Quote Reply
abe10
Level: Goblin
Avatar
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 03-14-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
:huh:huh:huh? Won't PREVENT the queen from moving anywhere other than along the border?

____________________________
My avatar is a cool gif I found on the Kongregate forums.
Click here to view the secret text

09-08-2014 at 04:31 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
abe10
Level: Goblin
Avatar
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 03-14-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
When the queen hits the center TD, which direction should she be facing?

____________________________
My avatar is a cool gif I found on the Kongregate forums.
Click here to view the secret text

09-08-2014 at 04:51 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3302
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
First or second? In my solution the first queen faced
Click here to view the secret text
when she hit the central trapdoor, and the second
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
50th Skywatcher
09-08-2014 at 05:32 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
abe10
Level: Goblin
Avatar
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 03-14-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
demo please

EDIT: H&S effect. nvm.

____________________________
My avatar is a cool gif I found on the Kongregate forums.
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by abe10 at 09-08-2014 08:31 PM]
09-08-2014 at 08:30 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
jokokoe
Level: Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 48
Registered: 02-19-2010
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
I can't change the diagonal of the first queen , I'm trying to use the wall that she has around her but can't do anything ( tried also with the northern walls )
When I change the diagonal of the queen , I need one more turn to take the portal so the queen come back to her first diagonal .
What am I missing ?

____________________________
My First Hold :

Do it Again
12-23-2014 at 12:01 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3302
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
Move the queen a bit further away from her starting block before getting her on a diagonal that will bump her against the force arrow where she starts. That gives you enough time to move from one tunnel to the other.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher
12-23-2014 at 12:21 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
jokokoe
Level: Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 48
Registered: 02-19-2010
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
Got it , thanks !

____________________________
My First Hold :

Do it Again
12-23-2014 at 12:40 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
tumtitum
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 11-11-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
This doesn't add up somewhow. I have to change the 1st queen to white to get her into the middle of the safe area, then because there's no way to get into the corridor from a white square as far as I can see, back to black immediately before going on to the pressure plate. But stepping onto the pressure plate changes the colour again, doesn't it?

Whatever, the 2nd queen always comes out black and must be changed to white in order to make it to the safe area which always places it on the wrong parity, ie. with an even number of moves to the next spawn and a path to the centre square which is an odd number of moves.

So, given that the 1st queen lands perfectly on the safe area on the correct move and therefore isn't being released either one move early or one move late, the only viable solutions appear to be direct entry to the corridor for the 1st queen from a white square, exit of the 2nd queen onto a white square, or a delay of one move in releasing the 2nd queen, none of which appear to be possible. I'm sorry if I've missed something obvious in the hints above but I just can't see how I'm not already doing what they appear to suggest.
05-12-2015 at 11:53 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1067
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
The approach you want is

Click here to view the secret text

05-13-2015 at 12:11 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
tumtitum
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 11-11-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
Ah right. If I'd known it was just a question of doing the impossible ... :throw

To get the 1st queen into the corridor I am positioning it at 11,27 and sending Beethro down from the top to the bottom right corner. To delay the 2nd being released I need to get from there to the bottom right on the next move which is plainly impossible because a move is needed to transfer to the lower tunnel. Returning to the top right corner which is the only possible transfer on this move inevitably results in the queen crossing into the direction arrows from which there is no escape.

Edit: no scrap that. As the queen is released immediately the pressure plate is pressed even the impossible move wouldn't delay the release but send the 1st queen out of the corridor again. Doubly impossible!

[Last edited by tumtitum at 05-13-2015 08:20 PM]
05-13-2015 at 08:11 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1067
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
Oh, I see. I think I misunderstood you.

Click here to view the secret text

05-14-2015 at 02:44 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
tumtitum
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 11-11-2014
IP: Logged

File: TSS Mother of All Roaches 2N1W - Parity Change.demo (13.6 KB)
Downloaded 16 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
I'm sorry but is there some part of "I don't know how to do that" that I've failed to convey? The demo shows the only method of transferring Queen 1 from the safety area to the pressure plate that I know to work without losing Queen 2 in the force arrows. Of the alternative routes to the change over to black I can find none that add just one or an odd number of moves to the process.

If, for some reason, you wish me to be unable to complete this room and therefore have no choice but to abandon the game, that's fine by me. I'm sure I can find more pleasant ways of banging my head against a wall!
05-14-2015 at 08:23 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1067
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
Okay, after reviewing your demo I think I can explain this more clearly.

Click here to view the secret text


Edit: Didn't notice a demo had been supplied. Well, my post will explain where your problem was coming in, at least.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 05-14-2015 09:14 PM]
05-14-2015 at 09:13 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
tumtitum
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 11-11-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
Ok, with an apology for my slightly intemperate posting I am happy to announce the completion of this room using only the advice and not the demo (well it enables me to cling onto a little pride!)

I had tried the colour change at the position indicated but had somehow convinced myself that it wasn't possible to get round from there in time to save the 2nd queen from blundering into the force arrows. Once I'd unthunk that it all became a lot clearer!
05-16-2015 at 03:52 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
adS
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 212
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (-1)  
quote:
tumtitum wrote:
Ok, with an apology for my slightly intemperate posting I am happy to announce the completion of this room using only the advice and not the demo (well it enables me to cling onto a little pride!)/quote]

Very good!

I have removed the demo.

Keep on with your good work :)

adS

____________________________
pauca sed matura
05-16-2015 at 04:06 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Camwoodstock
Level: Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 44
Registered: 07-02-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (0)  
I get the basic idea, my troubles are all in getting the second roach out with no spawns. From what I can tell, the moment the pressure plate is hit, it MUST be moving northwest. Easy enough, but then the additional point is that I must ALSO have it be delayed from exiting for one turn is what gets me; it seems impossible without using spawn; and then if any spawn is involved, it's immediately a lost cause and I gotta redo everything. What exactly is the timing on this?

____________________________
Camwoodstock - The Epic Blunder, Dugan's Best Janitor, Rooted Hold Runner, Lowest Point Watcher, and 132nd Skywatcher
Mastered all of GatEB, KDD 2.0, JtRH, and TCB! | Saw The Second Sky! (lots of secrets left!)

[PFQ | more to come | click secret for more!]
Click here to view the secret text

01-08-2018 at 02:57 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
navithmastero
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 259
Registered: 01-03-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West (+1)  
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Member of the Snake Appreciation Society

My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text

01-08-2018 at 09:32 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Hints and Solutions : The Second Sky : Mother of All Roaches : 2 North, 1 West
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.