Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
Registered: 11-14-2005
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I never did believe in miracles, but I've a feeling it's time to try
I never did believe in the ways of magic, but I'm beginning to wonder why
If only you'd believe like I believe, baby, we'd get by
If only you'd believe in miracles, baby, so would I

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged

Butterfly in the sky
I can go twice as high
Take a look, it's in The Book
Isaiah 40

Dischorran wrote:
OK, fine, you'll go to Heaven if you buy me that set. Happy now? As for the hypothetical deity, we both know you're dodging the point. One could perfectly well posit a god that rewards atheists and punishes believers of any sort.

And, not only would that god be not merely pointless, but in fact, penalizing to even consider, but it would merely cause atheism to approach an equal level of tactical value, while not reaching it due to the... shenanigans, for lack of a better word, involved in trying to gain anything from being an atheist.

As for this new faith you're trying to start here to prove a point: Why thank you, you seem to have made it of equal tactical value to Christianity. Which makes it become an arbitrary choice, again. And for some reason I like my status quo. Perhaps because it's a bit more defined.

Rabscuttle wrote:
Do you really mean this? I don't think the goodness/greatness of something is correlated to how likely it is to be true.

Ah, but it does affect whether or not you should believe it if you cannot prove it to be true or false, or if you should investigate it further if it would take excess effort to prove it.

Would one seek out a fountain of aging? Most likely, no. Unless of course, one had a plan to do something with it. Would one seek out a fountain of youth? Yes.

The same goes for whether or not Russel's Teapot is worth trying to locate.

Of course, in considering whether or not to investigate something, the reward must greater if there is a higher risk.

zex20913 wrote:
What's so awesome about Heaven? One thing I've heard about it is that "you get to be near God all of the time" (which seems to discount his assumed omnipresence here--though I'd guess the response to this would be that you'd be closer to God). To somebody who doesn't believe in God, this is an empty reason, though.

The other reason I primarily hear is that Heaven is not Hell. If there's a dichotomy, sure, heaven is the better choice. But if the choice is between Heaven and eternal sleep, why should I choose Heaven?

I believe what they're trying to say with "you get to be near God all of the time" is that you can sense His presence, bask in His radiance, and not have your brain overload from the sheer majesty.

And yeah, I understand your point about Heaven and Hell.

What personally sounds totally awesome about Heaven to me is (as I personally believe) that all our needs are met easily, we're given free time/space travel, and we get to enjoy solving the grand puzzle that is this universe.... slightly renovated.

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FNORD

Snacko
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 448
Registered: 06-08-2006
IP: Logged

I believe that was the point Sillyman.

Anyway, without misery there is no humanity. Pleasure brings nothing: do you really think you would attempt to find out why things are as they are if if you were perfectly fine with how things are?

By the way, did anyone notice that for a brief period last night, Facebook's Chipotle page was clearly being run by a religious zealot?

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Director of the Department of Orderly Disruptions

Bobpie
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 54
Registered: 04-26-2007
IP: Logged

I'm in heaven right now, I get paid to deliver packages and fill containers with liquid nitrogen.

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1721
Registered: 02-04-2003
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You shouldn't be inhaling that stuff, Bobpie.

And Sillyman--if you can't prove something true or false, or ever find evidence supporting one or the other, you shouldn't look for the thing at all.

Have you ever been caving? In some caves, there are areas where there is absolutely no light. It's completely dark. No photons whatsoever, except for those from the batteried helmets of seeing +3. There is no difference between having your eyes closed and having them open...except that if you keep your eyes open long enough, you will quite literally go blind from the strain (at least, that's what the cave guide told our group.) It is safer to not seek something that's not there, than to spend a long time trying to find it, and not being able to recognize true brilliance when it is found.

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NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Tell me, what exactly goes to heaven anyway? Because, thanks to brain leasions, I can prove that every aspect of humanity is in the brain.

Most people say that you get a fixed up brain, as after all, there is no pain. But obviously it wouldn't interfere with intelligence, personality and memory (which of course, all the unpleasant memories have had the unpleasant feelings taken away).

But then you have problems when it comes to neurological abnormalities. Take, for example, asbergers. Now, many asbergers have part of their identity located in fact that they're asbergers, and so obviously god cannot take away that. But then there are the negative aspects of asbergers, such as something known colloquially as aspie rage. How does god take away these problems without taking away the entire condition, and thus changing the entire person. And if so, is the person that goes to heaven really us? And why should we care about the person who goes to heaven, because it appears to me that they're a parasite using us as a vessel for their own afterlife.

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged

Well all's not well
but i'm told that it'll all be quite nice
you'll be drowned in boots like Mafia
but your feet will still float like Christ's
and i'll be damned
they were right
i'm drowning upside down
my feet afloat like Christ's

i'm in heaven
trying to figure out which stack
they're going to stuff us atheists into
when Peter and his monkey laugh
and i laugh with them
i'm not sure what at
they point and say
we'll keep you in the back
polishing halos, baking manna and gas

well some guy comes in looking a bit like everyone i ever seen
he moves just like crisco disco
breath 100% listerine
he says looking at something else
but directing everything to me
ever time anyone gets on their knees to pray
well it makes my telephone ring
and i'll be damned
he said you were right
no one's running this whole thing
he had a theory too
he said that god takes care of himself
and you of you

it's all nice on ice alright
and it's not day
and it's not night
but it's all nice on ice alright


Styrofoam Boots / It's All Nice On Ice, Alright
by Modest Mouse

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Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3408
Registered: 09-10-2005
IP: Logged

Sillyman wrote:
As for this new faith you're trying to start here to prove a point: Why thank you, you seem to have made it of equal tactical value to Christianity. Which makes it become an arbitrary choice, again.

Then consider my point proved.

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