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Maurog
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Yes, I decided to leave this place. Will I ever come back? Don't know, but probably not. For many years this forum was like home to me, but due to recent events I now feel unwelcome in my own home. Honestly, there are enough depressing factors in my life at it is, and online places I frequent should focus on relieving stress, not adding more. So there you have it - an official note of farewell.

I will continue to support Caravel Games and buy their products, it's just the online community that doesn't appeal to me anymore. If you need me for some reason or another, use the e-mail link. This thread has e-mail notification on as well, but don't expect any replies.

Goodbye everyone, it's really been a blast until it got ugly.

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[Last edited by Maurog at 07-11-2007 10:38 AM]
06-02-2007 at 02:17 PM
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Citrus
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I am saddened to hear you are leaving, but I completely understand why. Under similar circumstances I would probably leave too. Hopefully see you around.

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06-02-2007 at 02:27 PM
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Mattcrampy
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If, in the future, you decide to return, you'll surely be welcomed back.

Farewell.

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[Last edited by Mattcrampy at 06-19-2007 11:04 AM]
06-02-2007 at 03:02 PM
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Briareos
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Oh boy... :(

I would say "was it something I said?", but I really hope not...

Goodbye anyway.

(Oh, and "don't forget to write" etc. pp.)

np: The Black Dog - Tactile (The Book Of Dogma)

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06-02-2007 at 05:59 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Sorry to see you go, Maurog. Mind sticking around long enough to reveal the answer to Guess the Screenshot or formally name someone else to continue? ;)

Although, based on...
Maurog wrote:
This thread has e-mail notification on as well, but don't expect any replies.
...since e-mail notification isn't working, I guess he won't be seeing this post. :P

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 06-02-2007 07:30 PM]
06-02-2007 at 07:29 PM
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Tim
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Good Luck.

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06-02-2007 at 07:52 PM
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Jatopian
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Wait, what happened to make Maurog go :blowup?

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 06-03-2007 03:11 AM : alright, alright... sheesh]
06-02-2007 at 08:11 PM
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Blondbeard
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Briareos wrote:
Oh boy... :(

I would say "was it something I said?", but I really hope not...

Goodbye anyway.

(Oh, and "don't forget to write" etc. pp.)

np: The Black Dog - Tactile (The Book Of Dogma)

I feel the same way :)
06-02-2007 at 09:51 PM
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larrymurk
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Sad to see good members become fed up with the forum but it does seem to happen too often. Enjoy DROD and family Maurog.
06-02-2007 at 11:57 PM
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Citrus
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Jatopian wrote:
Edit: Heh. He's obviously not gone - look at this post's rating.

That was me, and how insensitive can you get? :angry

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06-02-2007 at 11:58 PM
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Tahnan
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Jatopian wrote:
Edit: Heh. He's obviously not gone - look at this post's rating.
In fact, I was the one who marked it down to -1. It wouldn't surprise me to know that other, non-Maurog people did the other downmods. I found your post to be in incredibly bad taste: gratuitous use of a smilie that you knew he found irritating (and one that, I should note, irritates the heck out of me), and it read like gloating ("look, it was things like this that drove him away").

[Edit: by the time I'd written this post, Jatopian's had been modded up to +1. I just brought it back down to -2. The word that continues to come to mind, and which I will gladly use as Merriam Webster doesn't mark it as vulgar, is "jackass".]

[Last edited by Tahnan at 06-03-2007 12:05 AM]
06-03-2007 at 12:02 AM
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UrAvgAzn
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Really sorry to see you go, but we'll always be here for you if you ever want to come back. Good luck with your future endeavors. :)

Keep posting,

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06-03-2007 at 12:13 AM
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BDR
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If it's because of that one thread that should have been closed already, 'tis understandable. Still, it's sad to see you go. Here's hoping you find things better in the future.
06-03-2007 at 12:27 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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I'm sorry to see you go, Maurog. Looking back through your long history of posts, I see you made many, many interesting and worthwhile contributions to this forum. I hope that one sore topic won't keep you away forever.
06-03-2007 at 12:52 AM
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NiroZ
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Its sad to see you go, Maurog. Ignoring your downmod crusades, you contributed a lot to this forum and DROD in general.

To be honest, not long ago I too was considering leaving this forum. Not just because of the downmod campaign and the copycat downmod campaigns either. The fact that we can't hold a clean discussion is depressing.

06-03-2007 at 01:10 AM
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Tahnan
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In what way was that not a "clean discussion"? Jatopian acted, in my opinion, like a jackass; I told him so. I didn't call him a [censored], a [censored], or a [censored], and I didn't gratuitously insult him; I called him out on a particular act of jackassery.
06-03-2007 at 02:25 AM
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Mattcrampy
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Children, children, this is not the place to fight.

That's what PMs are for.

And I made a deal with Maurog (that I had some trouble getting Schik to honour, keeping with his policy of non-policy) that we could replace the blowup smilie with something suitable. There was a version NiroZ got as an avatar that's about 60 pixels which would be suitable, so guys, if you'd like the blowup smilie smaller, pester Schik to replace it!

Because god knows it's time one of the mods did something constructive about this. :angry

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06-03-2007 at 04:59 AM
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Schik
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Mattcrampy wrote:
that I had some trouble getting Schik to honour, keeping with his policy of non-policy
Well, to be frank, you shouldn't be promising people that changes like that will be made without talking to me (or another admin) first.

The reason I don't want to change the smiley is simple: Behavior that is rewarded will be repeated. If people get the idea that jackassery will get you whatever you want, then we'll just get more jackassery.

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06-03-2007 at 05:13 AM
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eytanz
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Yeah. I hate the blowup smiley - in fact, I posted a complaint about it almost immediately after it was added - but as far as I am concerned (which isn't very far given that I have no say on these things), Maurog basically changed the stakes so that the cost of changing it far outweighs the annoyance of having it used.

That said, I also am sorry to see Maurog leave - he was a valuable forum member, even if he had a very poorly conceived notion of how to influence forum policy.

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06-03-2007 at 06:12 AM
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NiroZ
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When I talked to Maurog not long ago, he told me that he originally hoped that he would only have to mod down every instance of :Blowup once, thus people wouldn't post it and that would be the end of it. Unfortunately he failed to account for the fact that it was mainly new people who posted that smiley, and that backlash.

I don't know why he persisted in modding down every instance of :Blowup after it became obvious that it wouldn't work, however.
06-03-2007 at 07:00 AM
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Rheb
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Aww, I always feels sad when someone leaves a forum, even if it's someone I really didn't know. I hope you want to come back to this forum some time.

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06-03-2007 at 11:20 AM
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Mattcrampy
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Schik wrote:
If people get the idea that jackassery will get you whatever you want, then we'll just get more jackassery.

And we're not getting more jackassery as it is? Doing nothing is not the way to stop aberrant behaviour, because it's sending the message that you don't care what people do. I've had someone told me that one of the mods said that in as many words, which I find hard to believe personally.

You are, however, right in that I should have asked whether or not you'd be willing to change the blowup smilie if an alternative was found, but then I suspect that the answer would still be no, like it was when the damn thing was put into the forum.

So let's turn the question around: why do we still have the blowup smilie, Schik? What purpose does it serve, and why do you seem so intent on keeping it around when few seem to like it? Are you, perhaps, of the opinion that everyone should just 'get over it'? (And while this may seem overly personal or confrontational, you're the dude with the keys here. The buck stops with you. And I've never felt that dancing around an issue solves anything.)

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06-03-2007 at 01:04 PM
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Alneyan
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Ah, what if all browsers had a proper 'block this image' option... right click on the image, hit 'Block image', and done! One second and no more blow-up smileys, ever, or forum-wide guerilla warfare.

Too bad only some browsers ship with that feature by default (hunting for extensions is all dandy and all, but).
06-03-2007 at 01:14 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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And there goes Maurog, like a dead leaf floating away in the breeze of the morning.

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06-03-2007 at 01:16 PM
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eytanz
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Schik wrote:
If people get the idea that jackassery will get you whatever you want, then we'll just get more jackassery.

And we're not getting more jackassery as it is? Doing nothing is not the way to stop aberrant behaviour, because it's sending the message that you don't care what people do. I've had someone told me that one of the mods said that in as many words, which I find hard to believe personally.

You are, however, right in that I should have asked whether or not you'd be willing to change the blowup smilie if an alternative was found, but then I suspect that the answer would still be no, like it was when the damn thing was put into the forum.

So you figured that Schik won't change the smilie, and your way of handling that was to make a promise that only he can keep, thinking that maybe then he'll be obligated to changing the smilie?

Honestly, what is it about the blowup smilie that makes otherwise reasonable people act in such bizzare ways in order to get it removed?

So let's turn the question around: why do we still have the blowup smilie, Schik? What purpose does it serve, and why do you seem so intent on keeping it around when few seem to like it?

Ah, but that's hardly the case, isn't it? If it was true that only a few people liked the smilie, then there wouldn't be a problem. Here's a smilie few people like: :tcaptain - you know that's the case because no-one ever uses it outside smilie games and posts trying to include every smilie. The blowup smilie is a problem because it is polarizing - some people like it, and others don't. Maybe it's true that most of the people who dislike it *really* dislike it and most of the people who like it don't care so much, but there was no way to evaluate that, early on, and despite the occasional complaint no-one was particularly serious about getting rid of it - and Schik certainly had better things to do than worry about it - until it became associated with the downmodding thing.

Frankly, if I were this forum's moderator and Maurog's downmod campaign didn't annoy me into giving the blowup smilie permanent status, then your posts probably would. There's no reason to get accusatory, or imply that Schik is not doing a good job because he doesn't share your opinion of a smilie and your priorities about what to remove and when.

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06-03-2007 at 03:00 PM
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b0rsuk
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I'm not surprised.

Quality of a forum tends to be inversely proportional to amount of people posting on it. With recent boost of popularity coming from JTRH and TCB came a lot of threads and posts of questionable value. Threads about threads. Threads about smileys. Threads that should be private messages. Threads about rank points ! If you're going to treat rank points seriously, look at Forum Games ! You can earn heaps of rank points playing Rock, Paper, Scissors.

I'm a big fan of enforcing strict forum rules. Redundant thread ? Lock it and post a link to first one. Someone posting 1-question threads ? Lock them and PM the person with explaination + warning. Someone doesn't read stickies ? Lock thread and PM warning. Inability to use Search function - PM warning. Thread gets seriously derailed or off-topic - lock.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

Keeping forums clean is good for everyone. I'm deeply offended by people who use forums as a substitute to search engine. I used to think drod forums were good, but they gradually got worse with time. http://forums.bioware.com, http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=dom3 , and http://community.enemyterritory.com/forums are much better, although the last one could really use a karma system.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 06-03-2007 03:13 PM]
06-03-2007 at 03:11 PM
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Doom
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b0rsuk wrote:
I'm not surprised.
I would say that I am.

I mean, what's all this? Maurog leaves over a smiley and some mod points. People complain about threads not getting locked, but still read actively every single message within. The only problem I see right now is serious overreacting from several directions.
I'm a big fan of enforcing strict forum rules. Redundant thread ? Lock it and post a link to first one. Someone posting 1-question threads ? Lock them and PM the person with explaination + warning. Someone doesn't read stickies ? Lock thread and PM warning. Inability to use Search function - PM warning. Thread gets seriously derailed or off-topic - lock.
I'm still not experiencing this as a problem here. Threads aren't getting heavily locked/deleted, true. But whenever those threads are made, they get consistently friendly replies about correct actions that tend not to turn into flamewars. And I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by comparing DROD forums to other places just about no-one here is even familiar with.
06-03-2007 at 03:40 PM
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zex20913
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Bye Maurog. I'll miss your fun images. I'm sorry that some people thought it would be cool to treat you like a pinata, and blame you for all of the wrongs of the society.

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06-03-2007 at 04:20 PM
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Alneyan
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Doom wrote:
And I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by comparing DROD forums to other places just about no-one here is even familiar with.

I'm a more than passing familiar with one of the places linked to (Shrapnel Forums, namely), but I also don't get the point. I certainly don't see much of a difference between the Caravel forums and Shrapnel, either in the general nature of the forums or the involvement of the mods.

If anything, the Shrapnel Forums feature even less moderation than here (I can only name five threads that got locked, and no deletion). They also don't have any kind of karma system whatsoever (they used to, but it got taken down a few years ago). I can't say there have been many calls for more thread deletion and the like either.

What they do have is a bunch of people posting random threads, with the same array of personalities you could encounter on these forums. That leads to more than a few threads that have been addressed already, thread necromancy, threads going off-topic, threads with smiley abuse, threads that lead to some serious flamewars, and so on.

That doesn't sound very different from the Caravel boards, let alone "better", and certainly not an example of extensive moderation. And now I feel like playing some Dom III. Curses!
06-03-2007 at 04:29 PM
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RoboBob3000
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*reset button*

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06-03-2007 at 06:03 PM
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