azb
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How are you getting that? I tested the room again just now in the most recent version on my computer, and I can solve and exit it easily and Halph is never blocked.

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bbb
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File: HLH_L12_2S1E.png (902.9 KB)
Downloaded 23 times.
License: Other

This is what the room looks like by me.

azb
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Silly me! I think I forgot to update the hold with the trapdoor removed on that particular spot, and Halph should be not blocked so easily afterward.

Is there any other problems you can think of/notice, like bugs like that, or just the way things look are off or strange?

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bbb
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Here are some comments from that version until the impossible room.

L6: 1S1E: The challenge permanently fails if you wait, even if you reenter the room. The level 4 challenges are also broken in the same way.
L11: 1N1E: Challenge: Kill the northern queens, before going to the southern section, and don't use the tunnels.
L12: 1E: Turning the character into a slayer on (8,5) allows killing him immediately. Use (8,6) (or further south).
L12: 1S: Is it intentional that a second slayer appears after clearing the room?

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[Last edited by bbb at 03-27-2024 04:43 AM]

azb
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These are all great comments! I will definitely revise the problems as appropriate.

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azb
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Most of them are oversights, like the level 12 stuff at the end, but the level 6 and 4 challenges are intended to work the way they are - the scroll explaining the challenge beforehand gives plenty of warning about the challenge being intended to fail the way they do.

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bbb
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The problem isn't that they fail. The problem is that they stay failed even if you leave the room.

The general rule is that if you exit and reenter an unsolved room, the room should revert to its initial state unless you have a VERY good reason not to. (Story flavor speech can be an exception to this.)

In the context of these challenges, the only way it might be appropriate to permanently fail the challenge would be in a case where you switch entrances based on the fail. This does not apply with these challenges.

azb
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That is a very good point. I will fix it now that you made clear what the actual problem is.

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azb
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Does anyone have anything else that they think I need to fix?

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bbb
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All comments referring to one version back (pre L4 and L6 challenge fixes).
Solved everything, except for one challenge in L25 and one in L84, and Dreamlands 1N1W.

L6: 1S1E: The challenge permanently fails if you wait, even if you reenter the room. (Should be fixed in current version.)
L11: 1N1E: Challenge: Kill the northern queens, before going to the southern section, and don't use the tunnels.
L12: 1E: Turning the character into a slayer on (8,5) allows killing him immediately. Use (8,6) (or further south).
L12: 1E: Challenge: Trap the slayer behind a dropped trapdoor.
L12: 1S: Is it intentional that a second slayer appears after clearing the room?
L19: Entrance: Like in L12: 1E, the script allows the slayer to be killed immediately.
L19: Entrance: When returning towards the exit, there are two slayers.
[L25: 1E: Skipped challenge.]
L26: Entrance: Challenge: Don't drink potion.
L28: Full level: Challenge: Don't drink any invisibility potions in level (except for the exit room).
L29: 1E: Kill all serpents before killing any golems.
L29: Full level: Challenge: Don't trap trapdoors in the level at all.
L29: Have separate challenges for 2E and 3E (unless you have a full level challenge).
L30: 1E: How is the non-challenge method easier?
L32: 1E: Skipping levels has been out of fashion for many years.
L34: 2E: Challenge: Don't close door at all.
L35: 1W: Halph isn't needed...
L37: 1S1E: Backtracking issue. Solving and unsolving and going south.
L37: 1S1E: Add green door passage from north to south.
L37: General: Tar over walls is out of fashion. (Might as well add vision tokens.)
L39: 1S3W: s/Beethro a tar baby/Beethro or a tar baby/
L40: 1S1E: It would be better if the challenge triggered when Beethro is about to exit the room, rather than requiring reentry.
L48: Entrance: The room can be left without clearing it and then cleared from the east. (A green door still allow leaving the room uncleared.) Challenge: Ignore Halph (from normal entrance).
L51: Entrance: Alternate challenge: Kill goblin last (also after the eye), and don't let goblin onto the arrows. (This shouldn't be too difficult to script.)
L52: 1S1W: Challenge: Kill a goblin last.
L58: 1S1W: Challenge: Use only two decoys.
L59: Entrance: Challenge: Use only two decoys.
L59: 1E: Challenge: Use only two decoys.
L60: 1W: Challenge: Use two decoys, and don't drop trapdoors (and don't use Halph). Also, the ability to both not use a mimic and not clear the mud (and the green doors) create a backtracking problem.
L60: 1S1W: Challenge: Use two decoys, and don't use Halph. Backtracking problem for same reason.
L63: 1S: The arrows are especially problematic, since the path to the secret is from the entrance.
L63: 1S+1E: The non-secret one seemed harder, since the long rattlesnake could more easily trap itself.
L64: General: Halph wasn't that helpful, or really part of the puzzles.
L69: 1N1E: Challenge: Kill the serpent before releasing the goblin.
L72: 1E: The difficult part of the room is the beginning.
L73: Probably too hard for a completely new mechanic.
L84: 1S: No idea how to even approach the challenge.
L87: Entrance: Challenge: Don't close the door in front of the slayer.
L87: 1E: Either force clearing before leaving the room, or force returning from second entrance for final completion.
L87: 1N: It is probably preferable to allow clearing on first pass. (Also 1E.) Makes saving important demos easier.
L88: General: Preferably allow clearing the room on the main pass. (Maybe use beacons in 1W, since it should be cleared twice.)
L89: The target tiles aren't red by me.

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[Last edited by bbb at 04-10-2024 04:49 AM]

azb
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Thank you for everything!

I don't believe you have anything else to add after that about challenges and bugs?

Maybe, however, do you have comments on the voice acting and think it needs fixing?

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azb
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L6 thru 12 have already been addressed.

L6 1S1E, though annoying, is intentional due to the nature of the challenge, every other issue is fixed though.

L19 should be fixed, all issues

L26 challenge I tried to add, but it doesn't seem to work.
Can anyone explain why?

L28 I already have all the challenges exactly as I intended, as some rooms are basically impossible with the potion or too tedious otherwise.

Same deal with L29, the challenges only work for certain rooms and not the whole level

L30 1E challenge removed, as it was indeed easier

L32 level skip is intentional, because JtRH did the same thing

L34 2E challenge added and it works.

L35 1W: Halph is there for story purposes

L37: vision tokens added, and green doors added.

L39 typo fixed

L40: I tried but I can't get it to work with current DROD scripting.
Any ideas on the correct script?

L48 Entrance fixed and challenge added. Now it should be harder to do it from the east.

L51 Entrance: need help scripting it

L52 challenge: There doesn't seem to be a way to enforce killing a certain monster last AFAIK, is it perhaps done using "Wait while entity" in a specific order with if loops?

L58 thru 60 are hard enough without the challenge to me.

L63 fixed.

L64: Halph is there for story purposes.

L68: Unfortunately you cannot wait while entity type Serpent, even though you can for other monsters. Any help scripting this one?

L72 1E is intentional, for any puzzle the end doesn't always have to be the hardest

L73 all rooms toned down.

L84 1S challenge removed.

L87 Entrance doesn't have a door in front of the Slayer on my end.

L87 and L88 are intentionally designed the way they are, because even though it doesn't work well with demos and optimizers, it's exactly the same way JtRH level 22 was.

L89 I forgot to update the scroll to go with the style change. Fixed now.

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[Last edited by azb at 04-11-2024 05:02 PM : Fix typos]

azb
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Does anyone have any additional changes they think need to be made, maybe about levels 90 thru 100, before I officially submit this hold?

No one has made any comments in particular about the voice acting as far as I can tell - does it sound spot on or does it need fixing or editing in any way, in addition to the levels and rooms?

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