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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
Pardon the delay - suddenly got my hands very full at work. I really like what's happened here. :)

The hold description looks good now.

Path to Tueno 1S4W works as intended now. I have to make the guard strike the orb in order to escape. I like this hideout much better without the tedious secret room attached. It's a nice short diversion from the rest of the level.

Terra Vista - Some very nice changes here. The required path is shorter but with more varied scenery. And it looks like such a twisty turny maze, I'm glad I can just follow Arceano. It also leaves the player wondering, "Can I somehow get over there?" And indeed, sometimes I can get over there.
Click here to view the secret text

Deep Kabulian Fortress - Some very good thinking happened here. These rooms fit consistently into the "more challenging" category instead of the "more annoying" category. Some are very challenging indeed.
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 09-26-2009 07:12 AM]
09-04-2009 at 04:22 AM
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Chaosgamer
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
Welp! School started for me! That was two weeks ago actually. I just got caught up in this new video game I got but finally managed to put that aside (I remember when I first got DROD)

All problems fixed in Deep/terra vista, there is a total of 21 (I think) secrets there and one of them (or two) that is a teaser for the next two (and the last two) holds for this sereis. Although that the last one isn't in development, I will probally put that in.

Deep kabulian: "meh" room changed.

Also tell me if you think I got a bit carried away in tTV

You know what I'm going to say, but i'll say it anyways.
Update on first post ☻


09-21-2009 at 11:43 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
Hi all!

I've only played through the first level, but I thought I'd post some comments. Some of the more puzzley rooms are pretty fun. I generally like gel, but I don't like it when there's a mother involved. There were a couple too many messy gel mother rooms here for my tastes.

Some comments on the rooms:

Click here to view the secret text


I'll be posting more comments soon.

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09-25-2009 at 03:46 PM
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Chaosgamer
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2E1N - I think this room is fine, I must admit it is a bit repetitive and boring. I removed the door and pressure plate to make things more convenient.

I think the other rooms are fine. I complete change this room is everyone agrees.
09-25-2009 at 04:59 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
I've cleared some more now, I'm down in DKF. There is a lot of good stuff! But on each level there's also one or two rooms which get close to make me just quit playing, and that's really not a good thing.

TPtT: 3E3S is one of those rooms. When building rooms with stalwarts you should either make sure that the stalwarts randomness doesn't really effect the puzzle, or that the room is quite simple. In this room there is no way the player can know or figure out what approach will work.

KF: 1N1W is another one, it's not that it's very hard to clear the room, it just takes a lot of time. If you for example cut away the outer layer of the tarstuff-blobs the room would be a much nicer challenge.

Chaosgamer wrote:
2E1N - I think this room is fine, I must admit it is a bit repetitive and boring. I removed the door and pressure plate to make things more convenient.

I think the other rooms are fine. I complete change this room is everyone agrees.
The problem is that the rooms are not just a bit repetitive and boring, they're also often very messy. Well, that's just my opinion, maybe other people disagree with me, but I would have enjoyed the hold more without those rooms.

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[Last edited by Rheb at 09-25-2009 06:04 PM]
09-25-2009 at 06:03 PM
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Chaosgamer
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I'm just gonna wait for people's opinions. I have to admit that some of my rooms are long or messy. But some times that's the whole point. This brings back painful memories.
09-25-2009 at 07:10 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
What happened to the hold file? I hadn't downloaded the one with the new Deep Kabulian room yet.
09-26-2009 at 07:21 AM
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Rheb
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
Chaosgamer wrote:
I'm just gonna wait for people's opinions. I have to admit that some of my rooms are long or messy. But some times that's the whole point. This brings back painful memories.
Yeah, you should wait to hear what the other testers have to say. Well, here's the rest of my comments:

Click here to view the secret text



In BtB the Slayer maybe shouldn't be able to kill all the stalwarts. In 1N2W and 1N3W there are some openings between the houses, you probably ought to block them, so the player won't be fooled into looking for secrets that aren't there.

The cut scene here never ends, I'm not sure if that's just because you haven't built any further, but I thought I should mention it. As for the cut scene, I didn't check so much for spelling errors, but 1000 000 Slayers is a ridiculously large number, a thousand would be more realistic.

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09-26-2009 at 02:03 PM
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Chaosgamer
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
I thinking of submitting this for HA soon. If you have any objections, feel free to post them.
11-11-2009 at 08:45 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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Sorry I haven't had time to play this in a while, however there are still outstanding issues from previous comments that haven't been addressed.

The most serious unresolved issue was raised by bdwing way back here. The scripting in the second half of Speed Potion Factory is unacceptable. As bdwing describes in his one example, "undo" doesn't work properly in many of those rooms. Using "undo" in some of those rooms can get the player stuck, and they'll need to restore.

Even though you can correctly argue that this is the game's fault, and "undo" should work there, it doesn't. If you want the hold on the Holds board, you'll need to change the scripting such that undo doesn't get the player stuck.
11-11-2009 at 09:17 PM
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Chaosgamer
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Sorry I haven't had time to play this in a while, however there are still outstanding issues from previous comments that haven't been addressed.

The most serious unresolved issue was raised by bdwing way back here. The scripting in the second half of Speed Potion Factory is unacceptable. As bdwing describes in his one example, "undo" doesn't work properly in many of those rooms. Using "undo" in some of those rooms can get the player stuck, and they'll need to restore.

Even though you can correctly argue that this is the game's fault, and "undo" should work there, it doesn't. If you want the hold on the Holds board, you'll need to change the scripting such that undo doesn't get the player stuck.

I have found the problem. Lighting. The scripting is the same as all the other rooms. But the lighting for some reason slows the game down if I put too much. I removed all the lighting and off to the bug board.

UPd473 0N pH1R57 p057. :fun

however there are still outstanding issues from previous comments that haven't been addressed.

issues? I gonna look for any unaddressed comments but I think bdwing's is the only.

11-11-2009 at 09:51 PM
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bdwing
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
Has anything been happening here?

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01-19-2010 at 06:41 PM
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Chaosgamer
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:yahoo: Yay! I'm back ;), I went through all the comments looking for unaddressed ones. I think I addressed all of them. If not please notify me.

Major Changes
=============
-Me - being back
-Out from the beneath 1N 2E - Removed all mothers for more puzzelty


New version on first post. :thumbsup
02-27-2010 at 04:05 PM
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deftriver
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
Okay, for out from the beneath 1N4E what are you supposed to do? I can get the leftmost tar cut to be on the trapdoors and non-switch floors but the right side is completely blocked, I don't get it.

If I come in from the top then the guy drops the red doors but there are two uncuttable blobs left behind.
03-02-2010 at 06:46 AM
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Chaosgamer
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:facepalm:

Must have missed that. I was in a rush that afternoon. Anyways, fixed it.

[Last edited by Chaosgamer at 03-02-2010 09:04 PM]
03-02-2010 at 09:03 PM
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Chaosgamer
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
I'm just wondering if this hold is still active, I don't want it to fall deeper in to the forum and get forgotten. I still check the forum for any updates. :?
08-13-2010 at 12:25 AM
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Zorglub
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File: EpTgsb Deep Kabulian Fortress 1N2E.demo (1.5 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
I'm puzzled by the way the mimic statues turn when pushed by unarmed slayer (DKF 1N2E). When no golems are around, all works as planned. With golems, it's another story.
In some cases the mimic turns, in other cases it doesnot. In attached demo, the first two golems ae killed, the third one not.
Nothing is mentioned in the KF2N scripts.
I find this making it difficult to build a battle plan.

Is figuring this out part of the difficulty of the room, or could we have some clarifications?

Thanks

EDIT: I finished the room, but I still don't get it.

[Last edited by Zorglub at 09-10-2010 08:58 PM]
09-10-2010 at 10:27 AM
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Zorglub
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In the second part of Speed Potions, where the monsters are fast, DROD crashed several times, often when I used undo. Also, the checkpoints didn't work properly, and neither the doors. I found I sometimes had to pause one turn to have a proper checkpoint or door behavior. I have 3.2.0.83.
Once the fast monsters are done, no more crashes.
09-14-2010 at 01:53 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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Zorglub, when you say "DROD crashed," do you mean that the application quit with an error message? Or did you just end up with a Beethro on a totally black screen getting eaten by a monster?

Much of this happens because Chaos has a script that runs short cutscenes every few turns. This makes Beethro stay still while the monsters take an extra turn. In one of the more recent patches, the game was changed so that checkpoints don't trigger during cutscenes. That's why checkpoints don't always work in this part of the hold. Also, during one these cutscenes, Beethro's sword may hit an orb twice, because the game checks for swords on orbs, even on turns where you don't get to move Beethro. What's worse, is there seems to be a game engine bug (or bugs) involving undoing a cutscene or restarting from a checkpoint triggered before a cutscene. Sometimes, these actions take you back to an incorrect room state.

Chaos, you need to take out the scripts with the cutscenes that "speed up" the monsters, because this script elicits buggy game behavior.
09-20-2010 at 02:19 AM
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Tim
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Zorglub, when you say "DROD crashed," do you mean that the application quit with an error message? Or did you just end up with a Beethro on a totally black screen getting eaten by a monster?
I'm not Zorglub, but when I made a copy of one of those rooms and tried it (can't remember if I did it in the editor or not), but I vaguely remembered that the game crashed on me once. (it was some time ago).

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09-20-2010 at 11:05 AM
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Zorglub
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The application crashed completely. I had the beethro on the black screen being eate several times, but also the full application crash. I did not notice any particular situation causing one or the other.
I ended thinking much more to avoid using undo :P
09-20-2010 at 03:37 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+2)  
Thanks very much for the information, Tim and Zorglub. :)

I would really like to be a helpful Rabbit, and write a bug report about the game crashes that occur when playing this hold. However, the problem is, my game doesn't crash.

I played this hold a zillion times last year in 3.2.0.81. Game didn't crash. I played this hold last week in 3.2.0.83. Game didn't crash. This evening, I replayed Speed Potion Factory 3S5W, 4S5W, 4S6W, 3S6W, and 3S8W several times each, making liberal use of 'r' and 'backspace'. Game didn't crash.

Checkpoints don't always work in these rooms, but that is the expected game behavior during cutscenes.

In 3S8W, orbs can be hit by Beethro's sword multiple times during cutscenes. Counterintuitive, but the expected game behavior due to Chaos' script.

I get reproducible buggy game behavior, beeps, and assertion errors in 3S6W after placing a mimic. I've already submitted a bug report describing that. This is where I also can get black screens with Beethro under a tar baby. But even here, my game doesn't crash.

What could possibly be different in how we're playing? :huh
09-21-2010 at 05:19 AM
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Zorglub
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
I've tried to reproduce this but without success so far. I'll try some more and post with more details. It could be linked to another application running at the same time.

09-21-2010 at 09:44 PM
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Chaosgamer
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Removing the lights helped prevent MY game from crashing, however if your game still crashes I'm not too sure what happened...
I'll see if I can reproduce the crash.



EDIT: By the way, anyone can tell me the transparent color value for: Red Green Blue
I seem to have lost the old old old old images.

EDIT: I played all the rooms with the script which skips turns however I haven't crashed at all. I'm also not sure weather the version you are playing has lights or lots of lights in the lower speed potion factory.

[Last edited by Chaosgamer at 09-24-2010 01:11 PM]
09-24-2010 at 01:05 PM
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TripleM
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+5)  
It's rare that I play a hold from start to finish, but I did for this one and think it is an excellent hold.

I'm not one to comment on every room but here are a few thoughts/issues/questions:

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by TripleM at 09-26-2010 05:08 AM]
09-26-2010 at 05:06 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+2)  
TripleM wrote:
Secret room?
Click here to view the secret text

Hi TripleM,

Although Chaos didn't post about it, there is a new version of the hold at the top, where it is possible to find all the secret rooms in Terra Vista. (Watch out, I think there is still at least one place where you can get stuck in those secret rooms.) Finding the last two secret rooms in Terra Vista involves scripted events.

Speed potion factory is rather mean. Finding that fourth secret room also depends on scripted events.
Click here to view the secret text

Rabbit :)
09-27-2010 at 04:44 AM
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TripleM
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (+1)  
Bizarre, I'm sure I had the latest version, but apparently didn't. Thanks.

Regarding the secret room:
Click here to view the secret text

09-28-2010 at 12:42 AM
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Chaosgamer
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (Need testers for beta) (0)  
I appreciate your comments TripleM I'll get to work as soon as I can. Yes maybe its possible that some scripting issues somehow made their way back into the hold.

I CLEARLY remember solving ALL scripting issues in Speed potion factory: Entrance at one point... Maybe this has something to do with the data wipe :?

Sorry about not posting anything about the new version if that confused you.

EDIT: New version on first post solving CRS's issue with Terra Vista 3S 2W

[Last edited by Chaosgamer at 09-29-2010 01:29 AM]
09-29-2010 at 01:22 AM
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Chaosgamer
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (0)  
Well it's been a while...
I was going through the hold and found one fatal flaw.
Well can anyone tell me the color code numbers thingy for transparent?

EDIT: MY GOD, the bar is only at 66%? -.-
Well this might take some time.

[Last edited by Chaosgamer at 12-03-2010 09:51 PM]
12-03-2010 at 09:48 PM
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vinheim
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icon Re: The great stalwart war (+2)  
Here's a link to an invisible NPC I made for Techant a while back. Just open it in Paint or whatever and you can get the colour there:

Invisible NPC
12-03-2010 at 10:04 PM
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