Jatopian
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I would like to have these in the 3.1 engine, and I'm sure if I were a newbie I would like to have the JtRH hold available as a Smitemaster's Selection download.

I would also like to see the endings/afterwords for KDD and JtRH preserved, if possible.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 01-11-2008 10:35 PM]

coppro
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KDD2 and The Choice can downloaded normally through CaravelNet.

There currently exists no official way to put the JtRH hold into 3.0.

Jatopian
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Um, yes, of those things I am and was aware.

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coppro
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Then why ask about KDD and The Choice?

kyevan
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Because many people, lo and behold, DON'T want to re-buy what they have already bought, namely, the standalone KDD.

coppro
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Well, if you've already bought the standalone, maybe you should email customer support (support@caravelgames.com) to get them to associate the SmS holds with your account. You shouldn't have to pay again.

kyevan
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A friend of mine bought it, didn't like it, decided to trade with me for my spare copy of Doom. Strictly speaking, I /didn't/ buy it.

Kwakstur
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Okay, I was hoping not to be the antagonist, but I must say, your point that you don't want to pay again is invalid when you didn't pay in the first place.

I think emailing support is a reasonable solution for most.


I personally think you should stick with them being on separate games.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 03:09 AM]

kyevan
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I did pay, in the form of a copy of Doom! I'm intending to purchase my own copy, eventually, once I am actually able to pay, just because of all these freaking headaches. (Damn stuff not in stores - I need to navigate the USPS and a local bank's money order pricing and all that crap... or convince the 'rents to use a credit card for me. But THAT is not going to happen, I can guarantee.)

But as I said, this is true for many, MANY people, in realms other than DROD as well. But not people who cheat at Counter-Strike, for some weird reason

coppro
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If your friend gave it to you, you own it. Check section 4 of the EULA in the Data/Licenses folder of you DROD installation. You are legally entitled to the holds.

Caravel technically isn't required to provide you with a copy of the downloadable versions, but they will. Just send an email off to Matt at customer support, and he should be able to sort it out for you.

Kwakstur
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coppro wrote:
If your friend gave it to you, you own it. Check section 4 of the EULA in the Data/Licenses folder of you DROD installation. You are legally entitled to the holds.

Caravel technically isn't required to provide you with a copy of the downloadable versions, but they will. Just send an email off to Matt at customer support, and he should be able to sort it out for you.

Awesome. It really pays to do your homework, huh?

But does DROD: JtRH require the CD? If not, then his friend wouldn't have deleted it off his hard drive.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-30-2007 03:38 AM]

kyevan
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Well, no, it doesn't.

I think I'll probably just buy my own copy anyway - maybe it'll act as motivation to make the next one!

(Also, I want TCB )

Jatopian
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bump, because I keep seeing newbies get disappointed when this isn't possible, and I think it's about to happen again.

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Tim
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I can perfectly understand that, but can you also suggest which other Caravel project should have less priority over this?

TSS? F&M? SmS? RPG? or the CD version of TCB?

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Jatopian
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I'm tempted to pick one just to be tiresome, but I feel Caravel would know better what to do.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 01-11-2008 01:49 AM]

CuriousShyRabbit
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Unlike those other projects, extracting JtRH into its own importable hold file seems not to require any further creative input. The story and puzzles are already there. With permission from Caravel Games, this project could be done by talented forum members.

If someone gets permission to do it, I'd be more than happy to sign on as a beta tester.

Jatopian
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Unlike those other projects, extracting JtRH into its own importable hold file seems not to require any further creative input.

This. Although they probably want to include some extra stuff to make a CD of it. To which my response would be that perhaps they should just make it a downloadable, since JtRH already has a CD.
I don't think it would even require (much?) beta-testing.

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Tim
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Before I forget, I'd rather see JtRH working in 3.2. There are simply too many 3.1 versions that might not work well with JtRH I'd rather say that there is no support for all the earlier versions.

I'd also like to say that Caravel holds (JtRH, Smitemaster Selections) should not be played using 3.0, as you might miss some of the voices due to the speech filename bug. This is solved in 3.1, if I remember correctly.

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Syntax
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Unlike those other projects, extracting JtRH into its own importable hold file seems not to require any further creative input. The story and puzzles are already there. With permission from Caravel Games, this project could be done by talented forum members.

I believe the issue is with the Neather which has some hardcoded logic specific to JtRH. I can see issues with telling TCB to use that logic if the imported Hold is in fact JtRH.

This is vague but I seem to remember reading about it somewhere.

Alneyan
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Erh? The Neather isn't in JtRH, but in KDD, which can already be imported in DROD 3.0.

Syntax
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Alneyan wrote:
Erh? The Neather isn't in JtRH, but in KDD, which can already be imported in DROD 3.0.

Ah good point. Maybe it was some other JtRH specific scripting. I struggle with differentitating the 2 as I played them simultaneously...

eytanz
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Syntax wrote:

Alneyan wrote:
Erh? The Neather isn't in JtRH, but in KDD, which can already be imported in DROD 3.0.

Ah good point. Maybe it was some other JtRH specific scripting. I struggle with differentitating the 2 as I played them simultaneously...

There is no in-game specific stuff tied to JtRH; we created it using the regular editor with no special cheats. As far as I know, there are only three things special about JtRH:

A - The ending/credits.
B - The fact that it is undeletable.
C - The fact that you can import demo saves into it.

I think B is not an issue, but A and C will complicate stuff for people who wish to port it to 3.x. That, and the fact that you'd need Caravel's permission to distribute it.

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Beef Row
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eytanz wrote:
I think B is not an issue, but A and C will complicate stuff for people who wish to port it to 3.x. That, and the fact that you'd need Caravel's permission to distribute it.

I do believe the suggestion here was not that players distribute JTRH, but that perhaps an experienced player could create the port and turn it over to Caravel for distribution. That way this could get finished without distracting from Caravel's other projects.

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eytanz
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Beef Row wrote:
I do believe the suggestion here was not that players distribute JTRH, but that perhaps an experienced player could create the port and turn it over to Caravel for distribution. That way this could get finished without distracting from Caravel's other projects.

The only thing that's missing is a distribution method set up, plus fixing the hard-coded link to the ending/demo mentioned above. I'm not sure what work you expect a volunteer to do.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 01-11-2008 09:04 PM]

Jatopian
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Actually, I just went back and watched the afterword. There's no story in it, much of the credits isn't really applicable anymore, the music is deprecated as of 3.0 anyway, and Clayton's background graphic could probably be relocated to somewhere else within the hold or perhaps on the site. So I think the hard coded ending could really just be left out if we add a note about the Dreamplane in the ending text.
Have I mentioned that all 3 DROD afterwords are depressing as all Cocytus, by the way?

Distribution could be a download as with most SS credits, couldn't it? Free to those who registered the full version?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "you can import demo saves into it", eytanz.

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Briareos
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Jatopian wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "you can import demo saves into it", eytanz.

I guess that means that there exist two separate holds, namely the JtRH hold and the JtRH demo hold that differ in some places, but have the exact same hold id so you can import demos from one into the other, even though a demo might not work in the "wrong" version...

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eytanz
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Briareos wrote:

Jatopian wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "you can import demo saves into it", eytanz.

I guess that means that there exist two separate holds, namely the JtRH hold and the JtRH demo hold that differ in some places, but have the exact same hold id so you can import demos from one into the other, even though a demo might not work in the "wrong" version...

I think it's more complicated than that (I don't think the hold ids are the same, but rather that there's some sort of hard-coded override in the import code). But the point is that if you download the demo version of JtRH and then buy the full game, you can transfer your progress, which is a feature specifically hard-coded. If you just import JtRH into 3.x, I don't think you could bring over progress from the JtRH demo. Might not be a huge problem.

And what do you mean by the credits not being applicable? The work people (including myself) put into JtRH didn't get lost just because a new version got released...

But anyway, you didn't answer the question. Even if you ignore the ending and the demo imports, I still don't understand what the community volunteers are supposed to do to help Caravel here. 3.x is backwards compatible, so I'm not sure what is needed to "create the port".

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Jatopian
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eytanz wrote:
And what do you mean by the credits not being applicable? The work people (including myself) put into JtRH didn't get lost just because a new version got released...

Whoa, I'm not trivializing anyone's contributions here. I'm just saying that since there is no hard coded story as with KDD, it's not so imperative that we include the credits. We didn't preserve AE credits with KDD either.

Even if you ignore the ending and the demo imports, I still don't understand what the community volunteers are supposed to do to help Caravel here. 3.x is backwards compatible, so I'm not sure what is needed to "create the port".

Do you have a hold file for JtRH? Because we don't.

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eytanz
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Jatopian wrote:

eytanz wrote:
And what do you mean by the credits not being applicable? The work people (including myself) put into JtRH didn't get lost just because a new version got released...

Whoa, I'm not trivializing anyone's contributions here. I'm just saying that since there is no hard coded story as with KDD, it's not so imperative that we include the credits. We didn't preserve AE credits with KDD either.

I think they're in the end of KDD 2.0 (albeit, in a different format).

Do you have a hold file for JtRH? Because we don't.

Sure, (well, not me personally, though I might have one lying around on an old HD backup). If you have a dev version of DROD, you can export official holds.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 01-12-2008 12:18 AM]

coppro
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I know one forumite has done it without recompiling DROD (Pilchard VIII, if I recall).