Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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blah blah, spoilers

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
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There's no place your supposed to use it. There is this place and another place later on where it can be useful.

EDIT: Actually, no. This is one of the better places to use it.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 09-30-2008 11:58 AM]

donbrovar
Level: Goblin
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Banjooie wrote:
blah blah, spoilers

Click here to view the secret text

×Is THIS where I'm supposed to use the pickaxe?

Why you want to use it here? What you want to accomplish using it here? I am sure that there is no secret room connected to this one so I have no Idea about your intentions?

Banjooie
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Well, I can blow a crapload of HP letting swordsmen beat the crap out of me, or I can kill one red guard and then use it and save a lot of HP.

As long as there's no necessary spot, I'm satisfied.

Dex Stewart
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Briareos
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Dex Stewart wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×Where is this secret room that's only accessible with the pick-axe?

np: 808 State - Magical Dream (Ninety Remastered)

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bflatjeff
Level: Delver
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I never considered using it here. Interesting idea, really. There are so many places like this where its use would save much HP or keys, too bad you only get one shot!
For the record, I used it in


BbJ

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[Last edited by bflatjeff at 10-17-2008 03:47 AM]

zaubberer
Level: Master Delver

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actually i tried both ways to use the pikaxe. this room is solvable in both ways too. the easier one was (imho) to save a blue key, but boosting my ATK as soon as possible.



zaubberer

BSmartt
Level: Goblin
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help...


...and as usual, I figured it out finally...I think I should stop posting cuz as soon as I do I get it

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[Last edited by BSmartt at 12-29-2008 09:03 PM : figured it out]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

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You'll want to restore to an earlier save. Those are definitely not the best places to use the bomb or the pickaxe.

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BSmartt
Level: Goblin
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yeah, well...I'm realizing that the next level is extremely tricky so ... back to the drawing board thanks for the help ~

karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

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File: drodscreen2.jpg (117.5 KB)
Downloaded 112 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's the most secret room (3S, 1E) for the curious: not worth the cost of the pickaxe, although a rich trove.

However, we have to assume that the game is structured to allow
100% success, and if the pickaxe is the only way to view this secret, then it's got to be optional to defeat the game ....

Briareos wrote:

Dex Stewart wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×Where is this secret room that's only accessible with the pick-axe?

Click here to view the secret text

×On the same level as the pickaxe.

Click here to view the secret text

×Just two rooms away from where you start digging a tunnel towards the pickaxe.

Click here to view the secret text

×Two rooms west, actually.

np: 808 State - Magical Dream (Ninety Remastered)

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When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

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[Last edited by karlpopper at 04-28-2009 01:22 PM : Forgot attachment]

Odyssey
Level: Master Delver
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Ah, I had trouble here the first time.



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[Last edited by Odyssey at 10-04-2009 11:04 PM]

schep
Level: Smitemaster

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Okay, I'm confused. I don't think I had this trouble the first time, but when replaying TT lately, I'm always short a blue key at this point. No, I didn't waste one near the place where the hold ends.

All the blue keys and blue doors I know about:


What have I missed or forgotten?

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

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There is another one in

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12th Archivist
Level: Smitemaster

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Nuntar wrote:
There is another one in

Click here to view the secret text

×Goblin Tribe.

Click here to view the secret text

×I can't remember the room coordinates, but you can buy it from an NPC.

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Check out the DROD Wikia project here!

navithmastero
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So I'm running through RPG again and trying to optimise to 1st or 2nd in the TT leaderboard (I'm currently 3rd). In my previous runthroughs I've used 2 upgrades in Goblin Tribe (mandatory) and then 1 or 2 updrades in the Pirate Lair. I've tried doing this run without using the Pirate Lair upgrade station at all. However, as far as I can tell, without using the Pirate Lair station you can't hit the threshold for one-shotting swordsmen (you can get up to 4ATK short I think). Not being able to one-shot swordsmen makes this room *extremely* costly, and I don't think there's enough health in the game to get through it. Is there any way to do a run without taking any boons from the upgrade station in Pirate Lair (also without bombing the adder or using either of the stat boosting NPCs in Homeland or Goblin Tribe)?

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 05-14-2020 10:47 PM]

greenscience
Level: Master Delver
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One other option is to use the Pickaxe as mentioned earlier in this thread. This is mandatory for optimizing the Cleared Vaults score but otherwise costs more than just buying an ATK upgrade in Pirate Lair.

Buying some upgrades in Pirate Lair would be a good idea even when bombing the Adder. It only costs 4 DEF or 480 hp to buy DEF in Pirate Lair instead of Preservation of Tueno, which pays off if taking at least 30 hits until reaching the Preservation of Tueno station. Once you reach it and the Shield upgrade almost nothing should damage you anymore, making any extra DEF redundant for combat.

navithmastero
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greenscience wrote:
One other option is to use the Pickaxe as mentioned earlier in this thread. This is mandatory for optimizing the Cleared Vaults score but otherwise costs more than just buying an ATK upgrade in Pirate Lair.

Buying some upgrades in Pirate Lair would be a good idea even when bombing the Adder. It only costs 4 DEF or 480 hp to buy DEF in Pirate Lair instead of Preservation of Tueno, which pays off if taking at least 30 hits until reaching the Preservation of Tueno station. Once you reach it and the Shield upgrade almost nothing should damage you anymore, making any extra DEF redundant for combat.

I had used the Pickaxe for the secret room but always wondered whether that was actually its optimal usage point - I've used it previously in the vaults to get a 90%+ optimal score but hadn't considered it in use for slayer/archivist optimisation. I also hadn't considered the huge knock-on considerations of upgrading earlier. I see your score for the Slayer you've got "only" 625 DEF, versus my score with 650 DEF which could suggest, like you say, an earlier upgrade. I also realise now that in order to get the Oremite Shield you must also do an additional attack upgrade in either PL or PoT so I suppose you may as well do one in Pirate Lair and save lots and lots of health. Looks like I've still got a lot to learn with this RPG stuff haha

Edit: Did it with the handbomb and did manage to improve my score for the slayer a bit. Plus I reached 674 DEF, which is by far the highest of anyone, that can be my victory for today! Going to try again tomorrow for a better run.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 05-14-2020 11:58 PM]

greenscience
Level: Master Delver
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navithmastero wrote:

greenscience wrote:
One other option is to use the Pickaxe as mentioned earlier in this thread. This is mandatory for optimizing the Cleared Vaults score but otherwise costs more than just buying an ATK upgrade in Pirate Lair.

Buying some upgrades in Pirate Lair would be a good idea even when bombing the Adder. It only costs 4 DEF or 480 hp to buy DEF in Pirate Lair instead of Preservation of Tueno, which pays off if taking at least 30 hits until reaching the Preservation of Tueno station. Once you reach it and the Shield upgrade almost nothing should damage you anymore, making any extra DEF redundant for combat.

I had used the Pickaxe for the secret room but always wondered whether that was actually its optimal usage point - I've used it previously in the vaults to get a 90%+ optimal score but hadn't considered it in use for slayer/archivist optimisation. I also hadn't considered the huge knock-on considerations of upgrading earlier. I see your score for the Slayer you've got "only" 625 DEF, versus my score with 650 DEF which could suggest, like you say, an earlier upgrade. I also realise now that in order to get the Oremite Shield you must also do an additional attack upgrade in either PL or PoT so I suppose you may as well do one in Pirate Lair and save lots and lots of health. Looks like I've still got a lot to learn with this RPG stuff haha

The secret room should generally be the optimal place to use the Pickaxe. Its rewards are worth the equivalent of 3280 HP scorewise while using it in this room saves around 1500 HP from the Swordsman and far less from the other monsters. To get the Oremite Shield you could also use the stat boosting NPC early or the Hand Bomb like in the first half, but buying an extra ATK upgrade is most likely optimal.

There is another reason that my DEF is "only" 625 besides buying DEF early.

navithmastero
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greenscience wrote:

--quote--

Ahh interesting!

Are you sure you've used your greckles perfectly though?



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[Last edited by navithmastero at 05-15-2020 10:23 AM]

greenscience
Level: Master Delver
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I cannot be certain that my GR management is perfect, but I did get everything behind GR gates. There were a few places where I opted to use a GK when the alternative is 2 YK or 1 YK and 400 damage. If you're interested we could PM to compare rooms where we used GKs.

Nuntar
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navithmastero wrote: Is there any way to do a run without taking any boons from the upgrade station in Pirate Lair (also without bombing the adder or using either of the stat boosting NPCs in Homeland or Goblin Tribe)?

This may not be relevant for what you're doing now, but I can confirm that it's possible to complete the game with only two Machine upgrades (to kill a Rock Golem in Goblin Tribe). I posted this to RPG Challenges in 2016.

Going from memory, this was a difficult challenge, and I doubt that the additional challenge of only two upgrades without bombing the Adder is possible.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 05-15-2020 01:40 PM]

navithmastero
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Nuntar wrote:

navithmastero wrote: Is there any way to do a run without taking any boons from the upgrade station in Pirate Lair (also without bombing the adder or using either of the stat boosting NPCs in Homeland or Goblin Tribe)?

This may not be relevant for what you're doing now, but I can confirm that it's possible to complete the game with only two Machine upgrades (to kill a Rock Golem in Goblin Tribe). I posted this to RPG Challenges in 2016.

Going from memory, this was a difficult challenge, and I doubt that the additional challenge of only two upgrades without bombing the Adder is possible.

Interesting! Mine was more for optimisation than challenge and I can confirm that getting to the handbomb to bomb the adder was v difficult without upgrading, at least in PL. I can imagine that it's also tight in PoT. I don't think it's possible to do the challenge without handbombing the adder as I don't think there's enough health left in the hold to get through the remainder of PL and PoT without getting the RBS first.

An interesting challenge I've been thinking of is to get to 373 ATT and 694 DEF. This requires taking no upgrades apart from the mandatory ones before PoT and also requires very strict GR management. I'm 99% sure it's possible to do if you include the 1000 GR you get from the Slayer, but I'd be interested in seeing whether it's possible to get to that point before killing the Slayer. I got to 674 DEF but hadn't optimised greckles enough to get the last upgrade.

Greenscience, yes I'll drop you a message iab. I got to 12 GKs today but still only 45 YKs so my score is still a couple hundred points off yours.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 05-15-2020 01:59 PM]

greenscience
Level: Master Delver
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It would actually be 695 DEF due to rounding after the 3% boost. Do you consider selling YK for 150 GR valid for this challenge? If not one other option is to try fighting the Adder rather than bombing it. This gives you an extra 800 GR if you can survive PL without the RBS. If getting to 373 ATK is not important you can take the ATK boost in PL to help survive against the Swordsman or Bomb the Gel Mother for Oremite Shield so you can change the ATK boost to DEF boost.

One of the most important aspects of GR optimization is figuring out when to get the Lucky Blade. Besides the DEF run I normally do for optimization I had also completed an ATK run to fight the Archivist. I picked up the Lucky Blade later in the ATK run than in the DEF run since the reduced ATK from using the Lucky Blade matters much less when I have high DEF than when I am depending on ATK to reduce damage.

navithmastero
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greenscience wrote:
It would actually be 695 DEF due to rounding after the 3% boost. Do you consider selling YK for 150 GR valid for this challenge? If not one other option is to try fighting the Adder rather than bombing it. This gives you an extra 800 GR if you can survive PL without the RBS. If getting to 373 ATK is not important you can take the ATK boost in PL to help survive against the Swordsman or Bomb the Gel Mother for Oremite Shield so you can change the ATK boost to DEF boost.

One of the most important aspects of GR optimization is figuring out when to get the Lucky Blade. Besides the DEF run I normally do for optimization I had also completed an ATK run to fight the Archivist. I picked up the Lucky Blade later in the ATK run than in the DEF run since the reduced ATK from using the Lucky Blade matters much less when I have high DEF than when I am depending on ATK to reduce damage.

I'd consider selling YKs perfectly valid yes!

In the run I did today (you can see how I did here) I got the Lucky Blade immediately after getting the Steel Shield. One of the main things I wanted to do was to kill the Rattlesnake from its tail using the lucky blade without taking any damage. I clearly still got it a bit late as I'm still plenty of YKs short of your total. Due to the way that tarstuff babies are (V. high attack, V. low defense, high HP), I'd imagine that the gel baby required to be killed to get the lucky blade will not change massively in terms of how much damage it will do to you so should ideally be grabbing the lucky blade immediately after upgrading DEF in Pirate Lair to maximise the number of enemies you kill for free while having the lucky blade equipt.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 05-15-2020 04:14 PM]

greenscience
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Correct, I got the Lucky Blade before Steel Shield because oremites make the Steel Shield useless against the Gel Baby. Compared to the ATK run where I waited until reaching the PoT upgrade station before getting Lucky Blade since none of the mandatory fights in PL are profitable with Lucky Blade. Although I would consider tarstuff babies to have low ATK for their tier, but since Gel Babies are a tier above the monsters in PL you could say it has high ATK.

There are other tricks I used to get more YKs. One is that I used GKs in several places instead of YKs. Another thing to note is that I have very little GR (accounting for boss fights) in my scores. Since only every 400 GR could be converted into YKs, I tweak my runs so that I have just enough GR to buy YKs by the end.

KainXVIII
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Nuntar wrote:
You'll want to restore to an earlier save. Those are definitely not the best places to use the bomb or the pickaxe.

Which is the best place to use hand bomb?

Nuntar
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The hand bomb is usually used on

since that enemy is very difficult to defeat any other way, and the treasure it guards helps a lot with the remainder of the hold.

However... (endgame spoilers, only look if you are really sure you want to know in advance)


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