Announcement: Why not try our official idea generator for inspiration when making puzzles?


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Baby Steps (Working Title)
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Zch
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged

File: Baby Steps.hold (92.6 KB)
Downloaded 29 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Baby Steps (+9)  
Hello,

Hold with easy(?) but still fun(?) puzzles. Every level introduces player to new element(s), and I tried to make puzzles in a way that they teach player some basic tricks of drod.

This is NOT supposed to be a tutorial hold, so there is no solutions written on a scroll or stuff like that.

NOTE: This hold is not finished. It might be easier to test from the editor. Some levels do not have stairs yet, but I'll try to add them as soon as possible. EDIT: added stairs.

Levels that are finished:
* Roaches
* Evil Eyes
* Wraithwings
* Snakes
* Tunnels
* Potions
* Guards

Levels that are mostly finished
* Bombs (missing 1 secret room)
* Goblins (missing 4 rooms)
* Oremite (missing 2 rooms)
* Golems (missing 3 rooms)
* Tarstuff (missing 4 rooms)
* Aumtlich (missing 1 room and 2 secret rooms)
* Hot tiles (missing 1 secret)

Levels that are not finished
* Spiders (nothing here yet)
* Waterskippers
* Brains
* Briar

Stuff that needs to be added
* Story
* "Trivia master" scrolls that explain quirks of some elements and stuff like that.
* Few levels more for some of the unexplored elements
* Proper level entrance texts
* Better name for the hold!

[Last edited by Zch at 01-13-2013 03:08 PM : update new version]
01-08-2013 at 07:02 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
navithmastero
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 555
Registered: 01-03-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
After downloading this hold, I skimmed over it, playing a few of the rooms.

I liked the level layout (like in GJL), especially the levels with the straight corridors (I found the levels with a 'curvy' and more open look a little rough :)).

In terms of whether it was easy, I thought it was, although the difficulty was varying in places, think Evil Eyes 1N 1E, it was a cool lynchpin, and easy to work out, but if you are aiming it at players who are struggling with KDD, it may be a more tricky for them.

However, I enjoyed the bits I played, and, unlike most easy holds, it isn't just a slashfest with the same rooms over and over again (except, of course, for some of the later levels ;)).

EDIT: Also, in Goblins: 2S, I couldn't kill the goblin before the bomb exploded, making the room uncompletable, is it just my rubbish effieciency or the room?

-nm

____________________________
Member of the Snake Appreciation Society

One of your local HAs.

My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by navithmastero at 01-08-2013 09:01 PM]
01-08-2013 at 08:01 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Zch
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
navithmastero wrote:
After downloading this hold, I skimmed over it, playing a few of the rooms.

I liked the level layout (like in GJL), especially the levels with the straight corridors (I found the levels with a 'curvy' and more open look a little rough :)).

Hmm... You are right, there are many places that could really use some smoothing. For example golem level is full of jaggies that need to be fixed...

Some of the roughness is intended though, like for example the roach level is supposed to look like something that the roaches have, at least partially, made. So it is not clean and smooth.

In terms of whether it was easy, I thought it was, although the difficulty was varying in places, think Evil Eyes 1N 1E, it was a cool lynchpin, and easy to work out, but if you are aiming it at players who are struggling with KDD, it may be a more tricky for them.

Before entering Evil eyes 1N1E player has solved Roaches 4N1W,5N1W that teach getting past roaches by using obstacles. Evil eyes entrance has one force arrow that you must step on and off diagonally to kill trapped evil eye. Hopefully those previous rooms have prepared the player to solve this one.

However, I enjoyed the bits I played, and, unlike most easy holds, it isn't just a slashfest with the same rooms over and over again (except, of course, for some of the later levels ;)).

Glad to hear you liked the puzzles :)

EDIT: Also, in Goblins: 2S, I don't think I couldn't kill the goblin before the bomb exploded, making the room uncompletable, is it just my rubbish effieciency or the room?

-nm

This room should be easy after you figure out the trick.

Click here to view the secret text

01-08-2013 at 08:53 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
navithmastero
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 555
Registered: 01-03-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
Zch wrote:
In terms of whether it was easy, I thought it was, although the difficulty was varying in places, think Evil Eyes 1N 1E, it was a cool lynchpin, and easy to work out, but if you are aiming it at players who are struggling with KDD, it may be a more tricky for them.

Before entering Evil eyes 1N1E player has solved Roaches 4N1W,5N1W that teach getting past roaches by using obstacles. Evil eyes entrance has one force arrow that you must step on and off diagonally to kill trapped evil eye. Hopefully those previous rooms have prepared the player to solve this one.

Well, I suppose, I just think it's one thing having the idea right in front of you, and quite another to have it like it is. But, I think it is fine, it's just compared to some of the other rooms in the level, quite a bit harder (perhaps that room should come later in the level).

This room should be easy after you figure out the trick.

Click here to view the secret text

I got that, but when I kill the last goblin, the bomb goes at the same time, and doesn't activate the orb...

-nm

____________________________
Member of the Snake Appreciation Society

One of your local HAs.

My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text

01-08-2013 at 09:11 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Red-XIII
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 581
Registered: 08-05-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
Well how can I start... Once again zch, your ability to create holds really stunned me!
Up to know I only played Roaches, Eyes and Goblins but I really loved them, the design is awesome and the puzzle are perfect for those who only finished KDD, I just convinced a friend to play this, because he said that tutorial puzzles are boring but he couldn't say that about this (first rooms of "roaches" but he already asked me to let him play again this level)! The difficulty is hard enough to let the player continue playing even if he initially get stucked and easy enough to be really enjoyable for advanced players so even if this hold is mainly for beginner/medium player I'm sure that it will be enjoyable for everyone!
I liked all rooms but these ones were really nifty.
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

These are the rooms I loved most but I liked ALL those I played. I personally don't think that you should change the level design, giving the opportunity to explore the whole level is also a good idea.
I also think that for a first time player the difficulty curve grows too much but since you said that this is not a tutorial hold then I think that it's fine enough, perhaps you could put only 1 scroll for the most interesting feature of the level, like roach manipulation on 5N1W.
In conclusion, I really wish I can find more time to continue playing this hold, great work!

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay. There's just this one, just this rock
-33th Skywatcher
01-08-2013 at 09:34 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3744
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
Zch wrote: Before entering Evil eyes 1N1E player has solved Roaches 4N1W,5N1W that teach getting past roaches by using obstacles. Evil eyes entrance has one force arrow that you must step on and off diagonally to kill trapped evil eye. Hopefully those previous rooms have prepared the player to solve this one.
Yes, the previous level certainly gives you the concepts you need, but it's still a difficult room to puzzle out. I wasn't too happy with this room being a "roadblock" that has to be solved to access the rest of the level.

Unintended solution to Eyes 1N2W?
Click here to view the secret text


So far, this is a really fun novice-level hold... I wouldn't class it as a beginners' hold, especially since the first levels already expect you to know things like bridges, the types of pressure plate, vertical preference. But it's definitely a great hold for players who know the gameplay rules and want to learn the tricks that come in between those and "Advanced Concepts".

EDIT: Just finished Evil Eyes. 2N was a nice puzzle but very difficult. You wouldn't consider giving three eyes, and a scroll saying that a real smitemaster would need only two? ;)

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Nuntar at 01-08-2013 10:34 PM]
01-08-2013 at 10:00 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
navithmastero
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 555
Registered: 01-03-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
Red-XIII wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


Ohhh, I suck at efficiency :?

-nm

____________________________
Member of the Snake Appreciation Society

One of your local HAs.

My stuff:
Click here to view the secret text

01-08-2013 at 10:20 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Zch
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (+1)  
Hello everybody,

thank you for the comments and feedback. I uploaded tiny update, mainly to add the stairs and entrances that were missing to make testing easier. Hopefully I have some time to make some puzzles too in the weekend.

Red-XIII wrote:
Roaches: 3N1W It was very very funny manipulating the queen, though I'm not sure if you want me to manipulate queen also on the way down or roaches.

You are supposed to manipulate queen up, and then manipulate roach down. Is there a way to get queen back down too?

Red-XIII wrote:
...perhaps you could put only 1 scroll for the most interesting feature of the level, like roach manipulation on 5N1W.

I don't mind scrolls, I just don't want to solutions to the puzzles written in the scrolls.
I'm planning on adding lots of scrolls explaining properties of the drod elements.
There is currently only one of these "Trivia master scrolls" in the hold, and it's located in Snakes 2W.

Nuntar wrote:
Zch wrote: Before entering Evil eyes 1N1E player has solved Roaches 4N1W,5N1W that teach getting past roaches by using obstacles. Evil eyes entrance has one force arrow that you must step on and off diagonally to kill trapped evil eye. Hopefully those previous rooms have prepared the player to solve this one.
Yes, the previous level certainly gives you the concepts you need, but it's still a difficult room to puzzle out. I wasn't too happy with this room being a "roadblock" that has to be solved to access the rest of the level.

I made a way around this room by using breakable wall.

Nuntar wrote:
Unintended solution to Eyes 1N2W?
Click here to view the secret text


Congratulations! You found the first US :) Should be fixed in the new version.

Nuntar wrote:
EDIT: Just finished Evil Eyes. 2N was a nice puzzle but very difficult. You wouldn't consider giving three eyes, and a scroll saying that a real smitemaster would need only two? ;)

There is now third eye available for the player. I'm not really sure it makes the puzzle any easier though...
01-10-2013 at 07:43 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Red-XIII
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 581
Registered: 08-05-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
About "Roaches" 3N1W: Sorry I didn't notice the plants at (11,16) and (11,17). But I still didn't needed roach manipulation on the way down, when I led the queen up roaches got stucked by themself in the first area so they opened the door when I entered their range.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay. There's just this one, just this rock
-33th Skywatcher
01-10-2013 at 08:29 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3744
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
Zch wrote:
Nuntar wrote: EDIT: Just finished Evil Eyes. 2N was a nice puzzle but very difficult. You wouldn't consider giving three eyes, and a scroll saying that a real smitemaster would need only two?
There is now third eye available for the player. I'm not really sure it makes the puzzle any easier though...
Much easier in my opinion; the hardest part of the room was spotting the manoeuvre that made it possible to get two of the plates with the same eye.

Anyway, I've nearly done the first five levels now, just got Wraithwings 3N2E still to beat. Still liking this very much. Wraithwings seems a step harder than the other levels, but of course that's mitigated by being able to move on before completing the whole level. 3N was odd; I don't think I used the wraithwing in my solution at all. 2N2E is one of my favourite rooms in the hold -- even if getting the steps right is mostly trial and error, it felt oddly satisfying to watch the monsters dance along.

Goblins was a really fun level. I agree with Red XIII -- 2S is one of the most memorable rooms. I left it till near the end as it looked very hard, but it was much easier than it seemed! Same with 2S1W, which I didn't get until TFMurphy pointed out what I was missing :| 3S1E was genuinely hard though, and a really lovely room.

EDIT: Leaving that one room, I've done most of Snakes in the editor now. Some more excellent rooms there -- but there were a couple that I felt I got just by luck, especially 2S4W, which just felt tedious (at least, cleaning up the last few snakes was). I really liked 4W and 1S4W though.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Nuntar at 01-11-2013 01:10 AM]
01-11-2013 at 12:10 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Zch
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 503
Registered: 05-15-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Baby Steps (0)  
Hello,

Another update, new puzzle rooms are in
- Goblins 1S1E
- Brains 1W
- Potions 2N1W, 3N1W, 4N1W

Red-XIII wrote:
About "Roaches" 3N1W: Sorry I didn't notice the plants at (11,16) and (11,17). But I still didn't needed roach manipulation on the way down, when I led the queen up roaches got stucked by themself in the first area so they opened the door when I entered their range.

Hmm... the queen goes up and opens one door, and then roach comes back down and opens another. I think what you are doing is pretty much the intended solution.

Nuntar wrote:
Zch wrote:
Nuntar wrote: EDIT: Just finished Evil Eyes. 2N was a nice puzzle but very difficult. You wouldn't consider giving three eyes, and a scroll saying that a real smitemaster would need only two?
There is now third eye available for the player. I'm not really sure it makes the puzzle any easier though...
Much easier in my opinion; the hardest part of the room was spotting the manoeuvre that made it possible to get two of the plates with the same eye.

Ok, I'll leave the third eye. If you happen to have a demo where you solve this room using the third eye I would like to see it if possible.

Nuntar wrote:
Anyway, I've nearly done the first five levels now, just got Wraithwings 3N2E still to beat. Still liking this very much. Wraithwings seems a step harder than the other levels, but of course that's mitigated by being able to move on before completing the whole level. 3N was odd; I don't think I used the wraithwing in my solution at all. 2N2E is one of my favourite rooms in the hold -- even if getting the steps right is mostly trial and error, it felt oddly satisfying to watch the monsters dance along.

About 3N
Click here to view the secret text


Nuntar wrote:
Goblins was a really fun level. I agree with Red XIII -- 2S is one of the most memorable rooms. I left it till near the end as it looked very hard, but it was much easier than it seemed! Same with 2S1W, which I didn't get until TFMurphy pointed out what I was missing :| 3S1E was genuinely hard though, and a really lovely room.

EDIT: Leaving that one room, I've done most of Snakes in the editor now. Some more excellent rooms there -- but there were a couple that I felt I got just by luck, especially 2S4W, which just felt tedious (at least, cleaning up the last few snakes was). I really liked 4W and 1S4W though.

hmm... 2S4W is not supposed to be too difficult. Here's how I solve this room.
Click here to view the secret text

Sure there's some snake manipulating involved, but I don't think it's too tedious.
01-13-2013 at 03:48 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Baby Steps (Working Title)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.