mrimer
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Nuntar wrote:

mrimer wrote: Disclaimer: To avoid confusion, I need to mention that I'm not considering AE or anything earlier in the list of "supported skins". We will feature Erik's music

Just to be absolutely sure, are you saying that AE music will be available for use in custom holds without having to install it in the hold file? Because, you know, that has been my #1 most desired feature request for a long time

Um...I'm probably getting myself all confused. I was thinking that the room style music for Foundation, Deep Spaces and Iceworks was in 1.6. Looking it over, I reminded myself that these styles were new in 2.0. So, Erik's music for the room styles introduced in 2.0 is back in 5.0. We currently don't have the 1.6 tracks in 5.0. These tracks would increase the download size by 50-100 MB. If that's what users want, and they don't mind the installer size bump, then we can consider including these tracks in 5.0.

Also, I'd expect that we would be adding these tracks to the 2.0 room style track lists, where the rest of Erik's music lives. Sound okay?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-01-2014 03:14 PM]

mrimer
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I just realized my last post gave a lot of bogus information, so I rewrote it.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

RabidChild
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What about an option to bundle music with custom styles? That way, the AE music could be imported automatically when someone imports the AE style mods and it wouldn't increase the download size for people who don't care about the AE music. It would also allow the makers of other custom styles to provide appropriate music for them if they aren't satisfied with whatever the default is.

Now that I've written that, I'm pretty sure someone (Trickster?) has requested something like this before.

slimm tom
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mrimer wrote: These tracks would increase the download size by 50-100 MB. If that's what users want, and they don't mind the installer size bump, then we can consider including these tracks in 5.0.

I don't think anyone would mind a size bump of 50-100 MB nowadays, especially since the DROD games are already ridiculously small in size.

Nuntar
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mrimer wrote: We currently don't have the 1.6 tracks in 5.0. These tracks would increase the download size by 50-100 MB. If that's what users want, and they don't mind the installer size bump, then we can consider including these tracks in 5.0.

That's certainly what I want -- the size bump is not a problem as a one-off, but I really don't like the idea of having to increase a hold's size by that much if I want to use AE music in it.

RabidChild wrote: What about an option to bundle music with custom styles? That way, the AE music could be imported automatically when someone imports the AE style mods and it wouldn't increase the download size for people who don't care about the AE music. It would also allow the makers of other custom styles to provide appropriate music for them if they aren't satisfied with whatever the default is.

I'm not interested in using the AE style mods myself, but I'd certainly support giving them the correct music so as to have the authentic experience playing holds by other designers using these styles. The biggest problem with including music in the styles themselves is that it leaves out existing custom styles. We could update those to include music, but some of the style designers might not be around any more, or if we tried to decide on music collectively, it would be difficult to reach a consensus

Also, I'd expect that we would be adding these tracks to the 2.0 room style track lists, where the rest of Erik's music lives. Sound okay?

That doesn't feel right. I can see why some people might prefer it that way -- the JtRH styles have fewer tracks than the rest -- but the music for each one has its own unique flavour that coheres with the atmosphere of the style. Throwing in an unrelated track would hurt that.

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mrimer
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Nuntar wrote:
That's certainly what I want -- the size bump is not a problem as a one-off, but I really don't like the idea of having to increase a hold's size by that much if I want to use AE music in it.

That makes sense.

That doesn't feel right. I can see why some people might prefer it that way -- the JtRH styles have fewer tracks than the rest -- but the music for each one has its own unique flavour that coheres with the atmosphere of the style. Throwing in an unrelated track would hurt that.

Hmm...so...you'd just like them to be selectable via script command?

Or in what context exactly would you expect them to be available/featured?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-02-2014 12:22 AM]

Pinnacle
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The AE 3.0 styles themselves are only ~450K, so why not include those and just use the AE music with them?

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

[Last edited by Pinnacle at 02-02-2014 01:20 AM]

slimm tom
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Pinnacle wrote:
The AE 3.0 styles themselves are only ~450K, so why not include those and just use the AE music with them?

This would seem like the best solution, preferably with an option in the settings menu to turn this on and off. Turning it off would map AE holds to JtRH styles and music, like DROD has done for years.

jsmith45
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RabidChild wrote:
What about an option to bundle music with custom styles? That way, the AE music could be imported automatically when someone imports the AE style mods and it wouldn't increase the download size for people who don't care about the AE music. It would also allow the makers of other custom styles to provide appropriate music for them if they aren't satisfied with whatever the default is.

Now that I've written that, I'm pretty sure someone (Trickster?) has requested something like this before.

Attached is a single DMF file that includes the AE 3.0 styles combined with the music. This DMF file should work with TCB or newer.

The music files are associated with he "Voids AE" mod, so deleting that style deletes the AE music. The songs themselves are correctly associated with the individual styles.

Only the style-specific and level exit songs are included. I could add the others, but they would only be available via script commands.

Nuntar
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mrimer wrote: Hmm...so...you'd just like them to be selectable via script command?

Or in what context exactly would you expect them to be available/featured?

Oh, I don't expect anything I know that my opinions are just the opinions of one person, and one whose sum total of contributions to DROD to date consists of five mediocre rooms. Still, I've certainly got better at playing DROD since I returned last year, and I hope that the release of TSS will give me the push I need to have another try at architecture.

The main thing I want for myself (in connection with the AE music) is to use it for levels in custom room styles that currently don't have music, for example Mosaic Frost. So any scheme that would make it possible to do this would be fine. If I've understood Pinnacle's suggestion correctly, it should work for that; I would then be able to assign the AE music by scripting just like the music of any other style.

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50th Skywatcher

mrimer
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jsmith45 wrote:
Attached is a single DMF file that includes the AE 3.0 styles combined with the music. This DMF file should work with TCB or newer.

Cool! Would you please reattach?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

jsmith45
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mrimer wrote:

jsmith45 wrote:
Attached is a single DMF file that includes the AE 3.0 styles combined with the music. This DMF file should work with TCB or newer.

Cool! Would you please reattach?

I would, but I think I am hitting the file size limit. As you would imagine the file size is roughly the same as the The size of the included OGG files.

See file attached 3 posts after this one.

One last note about this file. While all the data can be deleted by deleting all the styles, the music related lines in the drod.ini file will remain, unless manually removed. That is a (minor) limitation of the current DMF code, and also applies to regular (music-less) downloaded styles which have had music lines manually added to drod.ini.

---

[Last edited by jsmith45 at 02-02-2014 07:02 PM]

mrimer
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jsmith45 wrote:
I would, but I think I am hitting the file size limit.

I understand, so I already removed the limit for you. Would you please reattach?

Edit: Ah, nevermind. I'll attach it.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-02-2014 02:09 PM]

Pinnacle
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That DMF file seems to be missing waiting.ogg.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

jsmith45
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File: AE.dmf (45 MB)
Downloaded 52 times.
License: Other

Pinnacle wrote:
That DMF file seems to be missing waiting.ogg.

Actually it did have waiting.ogg, but it does not have it properly associated with the style. A slight typo there. It is however, missing Simple.ogg.

That is now fixed. The fixed DMF file is attached to this message.

---

[Last edited by jsmith45 at 02-03-2014 03:30 AM]

RabidChild
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Pinnacle wrote:
The AE 3.0 styles themselves are only ~450K, so why not include those and just use the AE music with them?

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. You could have an option in the settings screen or even in drod.ini that determines which styles AE holds should use. It would probably be best to have it turned off by default, though. I don't particularly like the idea of adding the AE tracks to the newer styles, but if someone really wanted to, it would be easy enough to do by modifying drod.ini. And of course they would still be selectable through script commands, which seems to be something architects are interested in.

This would truly make 5.0 the definitive version of DROD.

mrimer
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If I understand correctly, the AE styles basically just contain the content from 1.6 (i.e., and no new element tiles from 2.0+). The music is great, but I'd expect that using the graphical styles is, in general, mostly for nostalgia's sake. That being the case, and now that we have a total AE style mod, I'm now thinking we don't need this material to be built into the 5.0 install. Moreover, having UI options to selectively apply this material sounds like an especially niche case that's doesn't feel worth it for me. Unless I'm mistaken, players who care to include the 1.6 material can now just install the above mod and they're good to go, right?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-09-2014 06:46 AM]

robin
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mrimer wrote:
If I understand correctly, the AE styles basically just contain the content from 1.6 (i.e., and no new element tiles from 2.0+). The music is great, but I'd expect that using the graphical styles is, in general, mostly for nostalgia's sake. That being the case, and now that we have a total AE style mod, I'm now thinking we don't need this material to be built into the 5.0 install. Moreover, having UI options to selectively apply this material sounds like an especially niche case that's doesn't feel worth it for me. Unless I'm mistaken, players who care to include the 1.6 material can now just install the above mod and they're good to go, right?

Just to be sure, if I install the above mod,
I'll have the AE styles with correct AE music attached to it?

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Nuntar
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Yes, that's exactly what you get.

After a bit of thought, this would work for me -- it's not ideal, but my Holds topic can explain that it works best if the end user installs this mod, and I guess enough players would do that (or would already have it) for it to be worthwhile. A question, though -- if I have a script saying "Set Music VoidsAEAmbient", what happens when the hold is played by someone who doesn't have that style installed?

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mrimer
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Okay, fair enough.

Nuntar wrote:
if I have a script saying "Set Music VoidsAEAmbient", what happens when the hold is played by someone who doesn't have that style installed?

Hmm...I would think nothing would happen.

In that case, to preempt a possible follow-up question, you could provide a fallback music selection when the mod isn't installed by doing:

Set Music <Fallback option>
Set Music <Voids...>

So, when Voids is missing, the other option would play.

BTW, having an entire jukebox of music styles automatically play for all of the AE styles can potentially be incredibly easy to script up in 5.0, in a single global script that you start up at the beginning of the hold.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-11-2014 06:01 AM]

mrimer
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I've added the above AE mod to the Free Downloads section of the Downloads link above.

I've added support to 5.0 to have AE holds automatically have their room styles mapped to these AE styles when the mod is installed.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

gamer_extreme_101
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It's also up on the TCB/GatEB (And I suppose TSS) Style Mods page on the site, where you can take a look at a nice image of it too if you don't want to download it first.

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.

mrimer
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Ah, wonderful! It looks very nice. I've tweaked some text and moved it to the top of the list for visibility.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 03-24-2014 01:19 PM]

RabidChild
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This thread got sidetracked a bit, but I'm bumping it because I think the original request still has merit. In fact, at this point, Caravel offers full and demo installers for the five main holds, utilizing four different versions of the engine.

An additional complication is that the older holds have been updated with challenges and graphical improvements, but if someone were to buy, for example, JtRH, they would get al full installer for the 2.0 version, but the only way they could play the updated version would be to download the TSS demo and import JtRH via CaravelNet. This seems less than ideal to me.