zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
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This game requires six players, and one co-arbiter (clue envelope) to make sure that I don't mess with the predetermined solution once the game begins.

Mr. Forum has been killed in one of nine boards! Who has killed him, and how?

The suspects are:

Jbluestein
Noma
Snacko
Jatopian
Stigant
Maurog

Penwielder also wields the clue envelope.

How was Mr. Forum killed?

Was it with a snarky comment to a newcomer?
A mod point complaint?
A heavy trolling?
A mean private message?
A spam overload?
Or was it a bad hold that made it through the HA process?

Where was Mr. Forum killed?

General?
Contests?
Holds?
DROD architecture?
RPG architecture?
DROD feature requests?
RPG feature requests?
Forum games?
Anything?

The game is afoot!

The first seven people to respond that they want to play will have a role. Six will be players, and one will be the info-holder.

Each player will receive 3 pieces of information--they may be a player, a method of killing, or a board. If a player has information, then that information has nothing to do with the death of Mr. Forum.

Rules:

There will be an order to play, and it shall be cyclic. Instead of rolling a die, play will consist of guessing and refuting.

Guessing: On your turn, you guess a player, a method of killing, and a board where it occurred. In the spirit of Clue, you can only guess a board where you have posted your most recent legitimate post. Nothing like "post" or "ditto" or "qft" will suffice--give an opinion, fact, or contribution to the conversation there. This will be checked for all guesses.

Refuting: The player whose turn is next is the first to attempt refuting. If they have a piece of information that could prove the guess incorrect, they must PM the guesser that piece of information. If they have the option of refuting with more than one piece, the refuting player may choose which piece of information with which to refute. If they do refute, they must post so in this thread, as well.

If they can not refute the information, they must post so in this thread. Then, the person who would play after them would take the refuting role.

A 24-hour clock will start at the end of each guess, or subsequent refuting. If the clock expires, then either I or the info-holder will step in to act as the refuter. If the option is available, we will show NEW information to the guessing player.

If refuting goes all the way to the guesser, they take the refuting role as well.

Once information has been refuted, then it is the next player's turn. Play continues until one person has made a guess that can not be refuted--this will be the way that Mr. Forum was killed.

:End rules

If you have any questions, please do ask them.

Winner gets 5 mod points!

So, who wants to play?

____________________________

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 03-31-2010 01:27 PM : Added lists per jbluestein's request]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Ooo! Oooo!11!

Count me in!

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged

zex20913, in the Forum Games board, with "failure to find seven players".

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
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I'll play: been lurking too much lately.

I'm a bit confused as to the rules though. It sounds like -- except for the 3 pieces of information we receive, which will have nothing to do with the deed and are used for refuting only -- we will be guessing blind as to player, location and method. I'm pretty sure that can't be the case, as the game would go on just a wee bit too long. So please confirm: will we know at the start of the game the names of the suspects, the nine boards and the possible methods of murder? (Or are the "weapons" those already listed in the first post?)

Snacko
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 448
Registered: 06-08-2006
IP: Logged

*raises hand, accidentally hits ceiling*



____________________________
Director of the Department of Orderly Disruptions

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
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Indeed--the players will also be the suspects, and the boards will be predetermined. The weapons are those listed in the first post, unless I come up with better ones than those there.

So far, it looks like jbluestein and noma are in, Maurog is snarky, and Snacko is in...the ER. I'll assume that Snacko is in unless otherwise told, though.

____________________________

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 03-28-2010 08:13 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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zex20913 wrote:
Maurog is snarky.

Film at 11?

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

I may as well play.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged

zex20913 wrote:
Refuting: The player whose turn is next is the first to attempt refuting. If they have a piece of information that could prove the guess incorrect, they must PM the guesser that piece of information. If they have the option of refuting with more than one piece, the refuting player may choose which piece of information with which to refute. If they do refute, they must post so in this thread, as well.

If refuting goes all the way to the guesser, they take the refuting role as well.

So it really is Clue/Cluedo without the annoying dice mechanic. It looks as though refuted information is secret, although the fact that someone refuted must be public.

And then, if it comes back around to the guesser, I assume that the guesser must state that they are capable of refuting their own guess...?

So in any case, we're up to four players. Come on folks, only three more required.

(and extra bonus to zex for formulating a game that requires you to be active on the board in order to play!)

Josh



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

I'll play

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

Penwielder
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 628
Registered: 09-12-2009
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The job of 'clue envelope' appeals to me. I've read the instructions thoroughly.

I get the idea that one can choose specifically to refute with information that you suspect the guesser already knows (when you have a choice in the first place). I also assume players can only refute with the information we were originally given (as using information they've logically 'proven' could lead to contradiction). Correct me if I'm wrong on any above point.

Lastly... in theory, if you really don't want to refute for whatever reason, you could pretend you were busy and didn't show up for 24 hours... couldn't you?

One more player needed.

____________________________
Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

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[Last edited by Penwielder at 03-30-2010 09:23 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged

Penwielder wrote:
One more player needed.

Unless Maurog intended to be in, but you can never tell with spiders.

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged

Sure, why not.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

jblue: It looks as though refuted information is secret, although the fact that someone refuted must be public.

This is indeed the case. The refuting (or lack thereof) must be stated.

jblue: And then, if it comes back around to the guesser, I assume that the guesser must state that they are capable of refuting their own guess...?

They must state so if they are able to do so. If not, then they've won (unless somebody lied, which Penwielder and I should be able to determine.)

pw: I get the idea that one can choose specifically to refute with information that you suspect the guesser already knows (when you have a choice in the first place).

True. If you have more than one valid piece of info with which to refute, you may choose which you present. Information must be shared with the guesser via PM. The mods do not need to be informed if there is more than one option, which one was offered for refutal. If there's some gamesmanship going on, though, I'll institute a rule where refuting goes through either myself or Penwielder, but hopefully we can abide by the policy of honesty.

pw: I also assume players can only refute with the information we were originally given

Also true. And now explicitly so.

pw: Lastly... in theory, if you really don't want to refute for whatever reason, you could pretend you were busy and didn't show up for 24 hours... couldn't you?

Yes, but I see no motivation to do so, as we can essentially take their turn to move the game forward.

I shall begin to set up the game on the morrow--about 9 hours from the time of this post.

Players are:

1)jbluestein
2)noma
3)Snacko
4)Jatopian
5)stigant
6)Maurog

This is the cyclic order in which both guessing and refuting. That is, jbluestein will guess first, and noma will be the first to refute. Refuting does not require posting in the "room" where the guesser is, though that is certainly not frowned upon.

Clue Envelope: Penwielder

"Rooms" are:

1)General
2)Contests
3)Holds
4)DROD Architecture
5)RPG Architecture
6)DROD Feature Requests
7)RPG Feature Requests
8)Forum Games
9)Anything

Again, I should have the game fully set up about 9 hours from now. I could use the timestamp, but I'm lazy. Ha.

EDIT: Holds has replaced The Site. Because of forum boosting properties.

____________________________

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 03-31-2010 05:48 AM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged

zex20913 wrote:

"Rooms" are:
[trimmed]

Request that the full set of choices be placed in the message at the top of this topic for easy reference:

List of Weapons
List of Rooms
List of Culprits

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The game is afoot! Every player has received their clues. The clue envelope has been informed of the crime.

Jbluestein is first to guess! Enjoy!

____________________________

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged

Excellent! I do have one final question which will not affect my action in the first turn (or, well, sort of it will).

Guesses may only be about boards where you have posted your most recent legitimate post. How precise is this, and what about boards that aren't under suspicion?

If I post to Contests, for example, and then make a post to Hints & Solutions, am I still clear to make a guess about the Contests board? Or do I have to strictly make sure that my last post (not counting the one in which I post my guess) was on the board about which I am guessing?

I don't mind if we use a strict interpretation. I do hope nobody will use this as an excuse to delete any posts in order to be in the right location. But I don't think our six players would do that.

In any case, I shall now begin. With my next post.

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged

Inspector jbluestein attempts to eliminate the obvious first:

I suspect that Mr. Forum was killed on the Forum Games board, with a snarky comment to a newcomer by none other than...

MAUROG!

(Like I said, low-hanging fruit.)

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

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[Last edited by jbluestein at 04-01-2010 06:26 PM : bolding my guesses and correcting a typo in my own name. ouch.]

jbluestein
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Registered: 12-23-2005
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So now noma has 24 hours to refute, right? And then it passes to Snacko. And noma can cut short the timer by simply posting that she is unable to refute.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

I can refute none of these claims.

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
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It's likely that each guess will take several days to refute. Would it be possible for the Keeper of the Envelope (KotE) to tell us who is going to end up refuting the guess rather and then give that person 1 day to provide the necessary refutation? That way we can cut out several days of waiting for 3 people to explicitly not refute. In fact, once KotE tells us who is going to refute, the next person in line can make a guess.

EDIT:
Actually, that's not quite right. If Player 1 guesses <S1 in the F1 with the W1> to be refuted by Player 3 who holds both S1 and F1, and Player 2 guesses <S1 in the F2 with the W2> before Player 3 decides which clue to provide to Player 1, then Player 3 would have extra information about what to provide to both player 1 and player 2 (for example, he could choose to provide both with the same info, or provide different info to each). I don't think this is a likely scenario, though, and it might be worth ignoring the slight advantage that player 3 fortuitously gains in this event in the name of speeding the game along. Furthermore, we are all as likely to find ourselves in the position of player 3, so it doesn't really change the fairness of the game.

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

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[Last edited by stigant at 03-31-2010 08:28 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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stigant wrote:
It's likely that each guess will take several days to refute. Would it be possible for the Keeper of the Envelope (KotE) to tell us who is going to end up refuting the guess rather and then give that person 1 day to provide the necessary refutation? That way we can cut out several days of waiting for 3 people to explicitly not refute. In fact, once KotE tells us who is going to refute, the next person in line can make a guess.

EDIT:
Actually, that's not quite right. If Player 1 guesses <S1 in the F1 with the W1> to be refuted by Player 3 who holds both S1 and F1, and Player 2 guesses <S1 in the F2 with the W2> before Player 3 decides which clue to provide to Player 1, then Player 3 would have extra information about what to provide to both player 1 and player 2 (for example, he could choose to provide both with the same info, or provide different info to each). I don't think this is a likely scenario, though, and it might be worth ignoring the slight advantage that player 3 fortuitously gains in this event in the name of speeding the game along. Furthermore, we are all as likely to find ourselves in the position of player 3, so it doesn't really change the fairness of the game.

I think it would be worth waiting for the actual refutation to occur. So if, for example, I post a guess, and then the KotE posts with 'stigant is the first person in line who can refute', then stigant refutes (and posts to that effect), we've already potentially saved two days.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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stigant: It's likely that each guess will take several days to refute. Would it be possible for the Keeper of the Envelope (KotE) to tell us who is going to end up refuting the guess rather and then give that person 1 day to provide the necessary refutation? That way we can cut out several days of waiting for 3 people to explicitly not refute. In fact, once KotE tells us who is going to refute, the next person in line can make a guess.

That does sound like a good idea to me. I think I want to keep the guessing after the refutation, however. It's possible to find something like 5 floating guesses--just increase player number 3 to 6 in your scenario below.

(I almost thought of a counter-example, but it would play out that way regardless, just taking a longer time.)

If there is no opposition within 24 hours, let's move to that ruleset, where the KotE says who (if anyone) can refute.

jblue: If I post to Contests, for example, and then make a post to Hints & Solutions, am I still clear to make a guess about the Contests board?

I'm going to go with yes here. Liberal interpretation--your most recent post in a suspicious board determines where you are.

Currently, Snacko is up for the refuting turn.

Edit: A post collision! Sounds like jblue is on board with stigant's suggestion, with my caveat.

____________________________

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 03-31-2010 09:08 PM]

Penwielder
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Do posts in this topic count as presence in the Forum Games board?

EDIT: I'm in favor of posting who can refute. You'll actually have to look at the list of players to see for statistical purposes how many people couldn't refute, but let's face it--who would track that anyhow?
You will now.

____________________________
Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

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[Last edited by Penwielder at 03-31-2010 09:51 PM]

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
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Er... doesn't posting who can refute take out most of the ability to lie?

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

er, wasn't the point of the KotE to prevent lying?

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
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I guess... can't see much other purpose for the role. Then again, zex himself ought to be able to fill it in that case, so... :\

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

My intended purpose for KotE is twofold--one, to prevent me from lying/manipulating data behind the scenes (which is already a backup to the clues) and two, to keep things moving if I don't move them along in a relatively short amount of time. (I'm still coming off of lurk mode.)

With regards to posting who can and can't refute, we would have stepped in if somebody had said "I can refute!" when they couldn't or "I can't refute!" when they could. I suppose that's a third reason for KotE. Threefold. I think that skipping all of the "I can't refute!"s would not alter this, but am open to evidence/scenarios that would keep this current system.

____________________________

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 03-31-2010 10:32 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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In the meantime, where is that Snacko character?

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

I'm good with the revised rules.