disoriented
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Sorry if this was asked already.

With the iPhone becoming one of the biggest attention-getters in the smartphone market, casual gaming seems like a natural fit. Are there any iPhone devs out there who would be able to work on an iPhone port of DROD?

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Banjooie
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> DROD
> Casual game

???

AtkinsSJ
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I can't think how you'd even fit a decent drod room, and controls, on an iPhone screen.

disoriented
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AtkinsSJ wrote:
I can't think how you'd even fit a decent drod room, and controls, on an iPhone screen.

Some folks have already ported a DROD-like game to mobile phones, as evidenced by this thread.

I imagine that the iPhone provides screen resolution that's at least as good as a nokia cell phone.

As far as controls, that's a good question. A number of iPhone games have come up with clever mechanisms for controls, including Wolfenstein, Pac Man, and Super Monkey Ball. Perhaps a DROD port for iPhone could borrow some of their ideas.

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slimm tom
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Size wouldn't be a problem. Integrate a zooming mechanic just like iPod and iPhone use with their photo viewer and you're set.

Briareos
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disoriented wrote:
I imagine that the iPhone provides screen resolution that's at least as good as a nokia cell phone.

320x480 - but with 10x10 tiles at most (for our beloved 38x32 grid to fit) it's not going to look pretty, much less recognizable without lots of squinting.



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AtkinsSJ
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disoriented wrote:

AtkinsSJ wrote:
I can't think how you'd even fit a decent drod room, and controls, on an iPhone screen.

Some folks have already ported a DROD-like game to mobile phones, as evidenced by this thread.

I was thinking more that you'd need the controls fairly large because you're pressing them with your fingers. With a phone the buttons are already there so no problem. Then again, I don't know how accurate the touch-screen is anyway.

eb0ny
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You could reduce the room size to 30x20 and use 16x16 tiles from AE (IF they are 16x16... maybe 14x14? Unsure). Puzzles can still be made in this area. As for controls, touching different parts of the screen could act as movement/waiting (emulate a keypad on the screen), tilting the iPhone could work as sword rotation, maybe undo (tilt to self). I am not sure how practical they are, though.

But such project is unlikely to be finished - look at the DROD Flash. Or is there someone still working on it?

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Briareos
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Ummm... I don't think a project like this is going to have much success if you can't play the already released holds on it...

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Sillyman
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Controls can go in the same space as the room, actually... just put invisible movement buttons on the edges of the screen and let the player know they're there and it'll be intuitive. Then... tap the center to undo, tap it twice to restart? And then let you zoom in on the screen (by pinching) to see large tiles... I think 10, 16 and... whatever the new DROD games use would be a good three tile sizes. Or vector tiles could work too.

And I think tilting to turn would work fairly well... either have it be that Beethro always faces away from you, or turning it 360 degrees turns the sword once. Or both with a configuration menu.

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[Last edited by Sillyman at 05-28-2009 06:53 PM]

slimm tom
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Your control scheme seems perfect!

The only thing I would change is turning. I'm for moving your finger C or CC around Beethro to turn.

zex20913
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I would think that tapping in the center should cause a "Wait". Double tap could be undo, and then I think shaking it should restart--like an Etch-a-Sketch.

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disoriented
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Some really good ideas here!

Maybe the small screen and the "casual" nature of the intended audience (phone games tend not to lend themselves to marathon gaming sessions) demand a different style of DROD. Perhaps something closer to "Frogs and Mice" with specially-sized levels...

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Briareos
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How about "violently shaking the fist you've clenched the iPod iPhone into" also causing an undo?

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Sillyman
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zex20913 wrote:
I would think that tapping in the center should cause a "Wait". Double tap could be undo, and then I think shaking it should restart--like an Etch-a-Sketch.

Why yes this is absolutely correct. So, let's see here:

Tap and release side: Move in direction relative to center.
Tap and release center: Wait
Double tap: Undo
Gently turn: Turn
Shake: Restart
Pinch: Zoom
Zoom out from toplevel: Menu.

(RPG: Put stats on the side)
Push butan: Use item

Or perhaps get rid of the double-tapping and make shake=undo, shake for 5 seconds=restart?

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[Last edited by Sillyman at 06-07-2009 12:51 PM]

NiroZ
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perhaps 2 seconds. 5 seconds is a long time to shake multiple times

Sillyman
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Right, right. Configurable.

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Gutter
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Objective C is a subset of C, and you can code on C++ transparently. The source code for Drod could probably be ported "as is" after redoing the screen rendering part. The iPhone supports Open GL ES, so the graphical part would need to be written with it (if you want the game to run at an acceptable speed)

The touch is sensitive enough to support anything DROD/a dev could throw at it. Controls could easily be done with 8 arrows around the screen, a "rotating" control, that you can touch and drag around Bethro to rotate the sword, and shake for undo. In fact, being turn based, the controls are probably the least of your worries.

The screen is 320x480, and the game would probably need a toolbar, so you'd be left with 320x434 (or 320x414 if you leave the time/carrier bar). Remember though that iPhone users are used to pinch, so the tile size doesn't really matter. The 14x14 tiles used in DROD would be enough.

Tim
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I think the main problem is that making a DROD clone on the iPhone is not profitable.

It's technically not difficult at all to port something like Simplicity DS to the iPhone (I'd say a couple of weeks if I'm lazy), but it has huge startup costs.

You need to have a Mac, and possibly a iPhone as well. Those things are not cheap, I can assure you.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that you'd probably make more money if you chuck up another Bejeweled, Tetris, Sudoku or a Sokoban clone.

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disoriented
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Tim wrote:
I think the main problem is that making a DROD clone on the iPhone is not profitable.

It's technically not difficult at all to port something like Simplicity DS to the iPhone (I'd say a couple of weeks if I'm lazy), but it has huge startup costs.

You need to have a Mac, and possibly a iPhone as well. Those things are not cheap, I can assure you.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that you'd probably make more money if you chuck up another Bejeweled, Tetris, Sudoku or a Sokoban clone.

But if you happen to already have a Mac, and especially if you know about Mac programming, then making an iPhone app is practically a no-brainer. The developer membership costs just $99 a year I think.

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disoriented wrote:
But if you happen to already have a Mac, and especially if you know about Mac programming, then making an iPhone app is practically a no-brainer. The developer membership costs just $99 a year I think.

I think I agree with you. But that can only mean that no one with a Mac knows about Mac programming.

On the other hand, they could port xcode to Windows, and save me 800 euros. And I'll still need a iPhone to test your game, which costs a lot here in Europe.

On the other side, Simplicity DS has 65 downloads after one year, and that for a free downloadable game. Even if you only pay for the developer membership, how high would you have to price a game to break even, with 65 downloads a year?

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disoriented
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Tim wrote:

disoriented wrote:
But if you happen to already have a Mac, and especially if you know about Mac programming, then making an iPhone app is practically a no-brainer. The developer membership costs just $99 a year I think.

I think I agree with you. But that can only mean that no one with a Mac knows about Mac programming.

On the other hand, they could port xcode to Windows, and save me 800 euros. And I'll still need a iPhone to test your game, which costs a lot here in Europe.

On the other side, Simplicity DS has 65 downloads after one year, and that for a free downloadable game. Even if you only pay for the developer membership, how high would you have to price a game to break even, with 65 downloads a year?

As with any other product, it comes down to pricing, marketing, and your game's perceived worth.

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slimm tom
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It seems profitable to note that an iPod Touch would be perfect as well to test the games, so no need to buy an iPhone. You can buy a touch starting at € 210. I happen to have one and I assure you it's worth the purchase.

Gutter
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I make games on the iPhone, and Tim is right.

I bought a Mac Mini specifically for it, and judging by what I make right now, as a "regular" programmer, it would take me about 30 more apps out to repay that "investment" before the end of this year.

Unless you get lucky with a game/application, it's not worth it. Of course, you can't get lucky if you don't make applications, so it's a catch 22. Some succeed, many (and I mean MANY) fail.

That 99$ is more for the support offered by Apple (which is excellent, up to the actual application feedback part, but I guess that QA testers need to be paid)

Gutter
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disoriented wrote:


As with any other product, it comes down to pricing, marketing, and your game's perceived worth.

I'd agree to that in a "normal" market.

The iPhone store is too saturated, and the "big name" competition to smaller developers cannot be ignored.

Anyone making DROD on the iPhone would be making it on their own dime, and I'd suggest STRONGLY that they keep their day job.

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[Last edited by Gutter at 07-03-2009 01:19 AM]

disoriented
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Briareos wrote:

disoriented wrote:
I imagine that the iPhone provides screen resolution that's at least as good as a nokia cell phone.

320x480 - but with 10x10 tiles at most (for our beloved 38x32 grid to fit) it's not going to look pretty, much less recognizable without lots of squinting.

Is it worth resurrecting this thread now that the iPad has been announced?

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Jatopian
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Dear god no.

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slimm tom
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Thinking about it, iPad has a screen big enough to fit all controls on, and provide a full-room view.

Tim
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disoriented wrote:
Is it worth resurrecting this thread now that the iPad has been announced?

Personally, I feel you're doing both the ipad and iphone injustice by putting them in one thread. They are different machines, and I feel they should be treated differently.

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[Last edited by Tim at 02-21-2010 02:14 AM]

hyphz
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But such project is unlikely to be finished - look at the DROD Flash. Or is there someone still working on it?

An iPhone port should be much easier than the Flash port because the iPhone can be programmed in C++, which means that potentially the existing code could be ported over, although it'd probably a few changes to the back end interfaces.

FlashDROD, on the other hand, would have to write the entire game system from scratch again..

I still have the code for FlashDROD, but with the new versions of Flash it'd now need a fair number of structural changes to perform by acceptable standards.