Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
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I'm hoping that in TSS, we'll be able to move and rotate with the mouse like we can in TT.

But in a classic DROD game, this ONLY serves to make it faster to get around rooms that have already been explored.

In fact, I think that it should start out disabled in the options menu, because if newcomers try to use it in regular room completion, they won't like it and it will turn them away from the game. Most people reckless enough to try to use mouse movement for clearing rooms will ignore the options menu at first, so I think that'll work out relatively well.

Actually, since both mouse buttons are already in use, let's take that "disabled by default" suggestion and change it to something that applies to the current setup. So how's this for putting in the options menu?

Object: LeftMBDropdown       Object: MiddleMBDropdown
Item0: Object Attributes     Item0: Object Attributes
Item1: Tile Information      Item1: Tile Information
Item2: Mouse movement        Item2: Mouse Movement
Item3: <None>                Item3: <None>
Default: Item0               Default: Item3

Object: RightMBDropdown       Yes, this is in a
Item0: Object Attributes      completely made up
Item1: Tile Information       language.
Item2: Mouse movement   
Item3: <None>                 It's just for demonstrating
Default: Item1                properties of control forms.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 04-17-2009 06:02 PM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3771
Registered: 12-28-2004
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Let's revive this thread. Take a note there is an even older one with some discussion.

I want to implement an option to make Beethro walk to a specific square in classic DROD with a mouse click. There are a few decisions to make though:

1. Just clicking can't work because both left and right mouse buttons have assigned actions.
2. Should it work in uncleared rooms?
3. Should Beethro just make a death move if it happens to be on the path and not obvious? (ie being caught by a monster)
4. Should Beethro navigate his sword around orbs?
5. Should Beethro navigate his sword around monsters and characters?

My answers:
For #1: Holding "A" (remappable) and clicking on a square in the room will make Beethro try to move there.
For #2: I see no reason to limit it - make it work everywhere.
For #3: Beethro should avoid stepping onto active Fire Traps but other hazards should be fine.
For #4: I think it could be frustrating if Beethro accidentally triggered orbs that could block his path. I vaguely recall being annoyed by thins in DROD RPG, but the main difference is that RPG has rooms with persisting state. Also, if used during a puzzle it could be annoying for Beethro to take ridiculously long path or, worse, just refuse to move.
For #5: Pretty much the same as #4.

Where I see this feature being most useful:
1. Skipping simple one-room mazes or labyrinths if you have no care in the world for them.
2. Quickly navigating longish intermediary or solved rooms.
3. Finding the shortest path between two points in a puzzle
4. Moving back and forth between two squares in a room that are of some distance and need to be navigated to.

Having written down my thoughts, here's a proposed implementation to criticize:
1. There will be a new key that when held down will modify Left Mouse Click to cause Beethro to navigate to the given square.
2. It will use the shortest path to reach it.
3. It will treat active firetraps and visible monsters as obstacles.
4. It will avoid stabbing bombs, kegs and required heroes.
4. It will otherwise ignore all other elements which don't block movement.

Thoughts?

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[Last edited by skell at 11-16-2020 10:43 PM]

Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster

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I'm very happy with this proposal, but I do have one suggestion: The automove should be interrupted if "something happens". Specifically, things like putting down/popping up a pressure plate, hitting an orb, etc., whether it's Beethro doing that or something else in the room. That is, it should halt the automove on the turn that the something happens, leaving the player where they are when that turn ends, so no "predicting the future" is needed for the automove's behavior or anything.

This would already happen if the player crosses a mimic potion (presumably) or gets killed by a monster mid-automove, and would be very helpful to people using low levels of undo (so they wouldn't have to reset the whole room/back to a checkpoint just because of unexpectedly hitting an orb or something), and just plain convenient for everyone else (in my opinion). Or, if not everyone likes that, then I guess it'd also be fine to have a checkbox to "interrupt if something happens" or not.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 11-16-2020 10:51 PM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3771
Registered: 12-28-2004
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One way to achieve this would be to have, say, left mouse button for interruptable navigation that happens in a reasonable amount of time and right mouse button to move there while skipping displaying intermediary steps and not doing any interrupts. The question is how useful would it be to have both options.

Maybe instead have it that the interrupts happen, but not if you keep holding down the mouse button. And if you hold it the movement is much faster.

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Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster

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I think I'm in favor of the "hold it down" option, seems like it'd feel fairly intuitive.

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Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2513
Registered: 09-10-2004
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One thing to be aware of is if there are monsters in the room, it could set up an infinite loop.

e.g.

###s###
###.###
#..G..#
#.###.#
#.....#
###.###
###B###

(B)eethro wants to go to the (s)tairs, but a (G)entryii head is in the way. If pathing is updated each turn, Beethro will just get stuck going back and forth.

--

If "the path I was going to take is blocked" counts as an interrupt, then this won't be a problem.

I believe this sort of check already happens with some Halph/Slayer/citizen behaviours - they work out their path once, and then follow it until something gets in the way, and only then will reevalutate.

--

edit: if it's always manually interruptable by the player, that'll also avoid the problem.

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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 11-16-2020 11:49 PM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5166
Registered: 02-04-2003
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IIRC, Tactical Nexus applies this UI approach for pathing to a location:

1. Depress right mouse button. This shows a tentative path to a location. (It shows no path, or maybe a truncated path, if there's an issue along the way.)

2. Click left mouse button (while right button is still depressed and a valid path is being displayed).

This follows the indicated path to the destination.

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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 11-17-2020 09:40 AM]

Kalin
Level: Master Delver

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I'd say use the Stalwart algorithm (anything more intelligent would be cheating), and prevent loops by aborting if the player steps on the same tile twice.

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