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TFMurphy
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File: Tower of the Sorcerer.drh (143 KB)
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icon Tower of the Sorcerer (+10)  
EDIT (1st Jan): As of now, the diagonal restriction is part of the main hold. As with many of the previous updates, you should start a New Game if you update to this version. If you do not wish to lose your progress, then don't upgrade until you've completed the hold. Changelog in secret tags:
Click here to view the secret text


===

When DROD RPG was released, a natural question arose: could Tower of the Sorcerer be ported to it, with all its original game mechanics intact? Well, it's taken a while, but here's the result.

This hold is built to be played exactly like the original (which you can find here for comparison. You'll find various things work differently than in standard DROD RPG - especially doors and secret walls - but the learning curve there isn't too great.

A few notes about this project:

* You can access your Inventory via the Cmd button or its associated key. This function is available to you at the start of the game.

* Score Checkpoints and scoring are as they were in the original TOTS.

* Hints for the original should work fine for this version. I've worked to duplicate all the quirks I know of between the two.

* Secret walls can only be opened by bumping into them orthogonally. This is deliberate, and half based around the next point.

* There are restrictions based on how you move diagonally. If you attempt to move diagonally in between two obstacles, you will automatically die, forcing you to restart the room or undo the move. Obstacles are essentially monsters, NPCs, walls, doors and weapons/shields/accessories. Potions, Gems and Keys do not count as obstacles and neither do (most) staircases.

Also, you are unable to move diagonally past an event trigger if there is no orthogonal space to dodge it. This also applies for the 'ranged' attacks of Magic Sergeants and Magicians: if you attempt to bypass them via diagonal movement, you will find that they will get to attack you anyways. These types of moves will not kill you (unless you take too much damage from a Magic Sergeant/Magician's attack), but you should find no advantage in trying to use diagonal movements to sneak past them.

You can turn off these diagonal restrictions by going into your inventory and touching the Orb of the Hero. You will then be asked if you wish to disable the restriction. However, doing so will disable scoring and all Score Checkpoints.

Finally, there's one other diagonal movement that can kill you in the final area, but you'll discover where on your own. Please remember that the original game was built to be played using the arrow keys only, and that diagonal movement in DROD RPG is a convenience here, not a right. That said, if you do notice any unfair deaths where you don't think you were attempting to cheat the system, let me know.

* The hold is mostly an exercise in scripting, but for now, the hold is marked Conquerers only. I may put up a version sometime in the future that's Anyone Edit, but I'd rather that most people first see the scripting in action through the game before diving in to see how it all works.

* I do not have the intention of publishing this hold, for various reasons. If you're interested in highscores, there are already other avenues you can explore (the original has its own highscore table, as an example).

Anyways, have fun with it.

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 01-01-2009 01:47 AM]
12-27-2008 at 09:35 PM
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TFMurphy
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icon Re: Tower of the Sorcerer (+1)  
quote:
Nuntar wrote:
I killed the Dragon with the Destructible Ball and nothing happened... one of its squares blew up and that was it. Was anything more meant to happen?


Semi-bug. Dragon's supposed to be invulnerable to the Destructible Ball, and it looks like the code to kill it accidentally slipped in, whilst killing it that way doesn't run the cutscene.

I've uploaded a new version that should fix this issue.
12-27-2008 at 11:58 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Tower of the Sorcerer (+1)  
I've always wanted to play TotS without the slow movements.

This looks really good to me.

(Fortunately I wasn't very far, but I don't mind downloading again ;))

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12-28-2008 at 12:02 AM
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Someone Else
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There's only one thing it's missing: the white on light blue text.
12-28-2008 at 12:24 AM
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TFMurphy
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quote:
Nuntar wrote:
Hold completed :) That was so much easier than the real TotS :P


Well, it's up to you whether you play fairly or not :P Like I said, the methods available to prevent diagonal movement also make it less fun to play fairly - mouse movement and the right-clicking are both features I love in DROD RPG, and all solutions I considered hampered one or the other. Forcing the issue didn't seem to be a good enough trade-off, especially given that this is meant both as an example and a way to enjoy the game in its own right. (And is not intended to be published on CaravelNet)

But if people want, I can upload an Orthosquare version fairly easily. Or a version that kills you whenever you move or face diagonally. I just feel that it detracts more from it.

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 12-28-2008 12:42 AM]
12-28-2008 at 12:40 AM
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icon Re: Tower of the Sorcerer (+1)  
ToTS was an awesome game, and this is the (almost) perfect representation of said game. Of course, ToTS was extremely hard without diagonal movement, and even in DROD, the game is still greatly difficult.

Very, very, very nice job!

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12-28-2008 at 02:07 AM
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Blondbeard
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Why not only place ortho squares in the relevant places? One ortho square at every door with an enemy in front of it or directly behind it ought to be a good starter ;)

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12-28-2008 at 12:23 PM
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TFMurphy
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EDIT (31st Dec): I'm really happy with this version, so it will be replacing the main version in the first post now. I've played through it twice using different styles, and it's been great. Fixed a few more bugs too, so the old version is falling behind on that -- so now's as good a time as any to move on to this version.

quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Why not only place ortho squares in the relevant places? One ortho square at every door with an enemy in front of it or directly behind it ought to be a good starter ;)


The problem is figuring out *what* the relevant places are. If you block some and not others, you're almost inviting people to look for ways around obstacles, rather than sticking to the challenge themselves. Things get really nasty in the Fifth Ascent where it's not only moving between enemies that must be blocked, but moving between *attack ranges* without getting hit. And 47F is just a nightmare.

However, I've perservered, and I think I've come up with a solution. Took a while to implement, but I've done a run-through, and it plays well.

I've attached this version to this post. Now, an illegal diagonal move will kill you. A move is illegal if it goes diagonally between two obstacles (walls or monsters). Items are not counted as obstacles in this case (they could've been, but I figured that would be too restrictive, and you don't really gain much from it), and neither are staircases (because I'd need to go and redo all the staircases if I was going to include them). Neither of these exceptions should cause problems though.

Also, moving diagonally in the Fifth Ascent to dodge Magic Sergeants and Magicians will not kill you, but instead should allow them to attack you as if you'd moved through the orthogonal space. The script should be intelligent enough to allow diagonal movement past a Magician if there's an open space that isn't threatened though, so don't feel too restricted. The exception to these rules are the Magician As in Fifth Ascent:Septence North. Due to their unique nature, attempting to move diagonally past their threat range *WILL* kill you. I couldn't find any way of circumventing this.

This diagonal restriction is optional. You can turn it off by going into your inventory and touching the Orb of the Hero. However, turning it off will disable scoring. (Not that scoring means a whole lot, but I wanted at least some token, and this seemed best).

Anyways. I've given it a fair bit of testing, but I'm not replacing the version in the topmost post just yet with this one. Also, you should start a new game if you play with this version - the changes to many scripts means that I cannot predict what will happen to old saves. If you're already a good ways into the previous version, don't bother playing this version unless you want to restart!

This version also has a few bugfixes -- I hadn't realised that the DROD RPG version changes caused the Warp Staff's visual effects to display incorrectly, so that's been dealt with. Also, the Magician As on 47F should no longer be able to be deleted by appearing on top of them from a staircase. These are both fringe changes, so again, it's not worth updating to this version if you're already a good ways through.

Anyways, if you happen to find any problems, let me know. Have fun.

EDIT: Oh, right. All triggers now test for diagonal movement, and will activate if the only possible diagonal movement would require an orthogonal movement over the trigger square. These moves won't kill you, but they'll activate anyways. Turning off the diagonal restriction will cause the triggers to go back to not detecting diagonal movements (with the exception of the trigger on the third floor, for obvious reasons).

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 12-31-2008 06:52 AM]
12-29-2008 at 07:30 PM
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Blondbeard
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Seems like a very nice solition to me!

Edit: Something is buggy with the Rocks. No creature graphic in the window, and when I atack them it creates a beeping sound. Might I sugest using Rock Golems with the name Rock? Or even keep the name Rock Golem. Something seems to be a bit wrong anyway.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-30-2008 11:49 AM]
12-30-2008 at 10:30 AM
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TFMurphy
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quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Seems like a very nice solition to me!

Edit: Something is buggy with the Rocks. No creature graphic in the window, and when I atack them it creates a beeping sound. Might I sugest using Rock Golems with the name Rock? Or even keep the name Rock Golem. Something seems to be a bit wrong anyway.


The assertion error you describe was a problem with DROD RPG 1.0.2. It has since been fixed in DROD RPG 1.1, the latest official version. If you do not have that version, I strongly suggest upgrading. (And if you don't have 1.1 yet, you should redownload the *full* version of 1.1 so you can get the updated graphics too.) As with any patch, backing up your game data is always a good idea before applying it, but 1.1 has been very stable for me. (And given how script-heavy TotS is, that's saying something)
12-30-2008 at 01:44 PM
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Blondbeard
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Yep. That works :)

Just a sugestion. The thing I disliked about TotS was the secret walls. Would it be much trouble to make it possible for players to choose to play with crumbley walls graphic where there is a secret wall?

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-30-2008 03:50 PM]
12-30-2008 at 03:46 PM
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Oh? I liked the secret walls like that. It's a nice surprise when you discover by accident that you can save a lot of HP on, for instance, the Iron shield.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 12-30-2008 03:59 PM]
12-30-2008 at 03:58 PM
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Blondbeard
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That's why you should be able to choose. I dislike the secret walls, you like them.

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12-30-2008 at 10:11 PM
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TFMurphy
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quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Just a sugestion. The thing I disliked about TotS was the secret walls. Would it be much trouble to make it possible for players to choose to play with crumbley walls graphic where there is a secret wall?

I'm loathe to make that change right now without a Silent Building imperative - the trapdoor sound when you enter a level is rather damning.

Even with that Imperative though, I'd be hesitant to add it. The problem isn't the Secret Walls themselves. It's that TotS uses them later in the game in a different way, so marking them might end up confusing players more than just leaving them blank. Or maybe it'd spoil the puzzle more (these aren't random secret walls I'm referring to: if you've played far enough and solved the puzzles, you should know what I'm referring to).

As it is, I will say the following: yes, I don't particularly like TotS secret walls, and I wouldn't have coded them like this for anything other than a port of TotS. But in its defense, all secret walls in TotS are hinted at (even though sometimes these hints are only given several floors onwards), and some are part of elaborate puzzles that are in themselves reasonably interesting.

So, yeah. Definitely not without Silent Building, and even with I've kinda got mixed feelings about it. I guess you can at least take comfort in TotS's limited gameplay area and the fact that there aren't as many secret walls as you may fear.
12-30-2008 at 10:32 PM
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ellwilll
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what ius the cmd key? i cant find one...

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12-30-2008 at 11:01 PM
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quote:
ellwilll wrote:
what ius the cmd key? i cant find one...

The Cmd key is a little button near the top-right of the screen. It is the bottom-right most button of 8 keys (4 rows by 2 columns). The text on the button says, "Cmd" which stands for "command", a special button that can be scripted to do things. In the case of Tower of the Sorcerer, when pressed, it will transport you to your inventory, a place where you can view your equipment, read the things that merchants and old men tell you, and use your Orb of Flight.

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12-30-2008 at 11:11 PM
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Really nice to play this through with DROD RPG. I ended with a score of 354, which is a bit less than what I got when I really tried to optimize TotS. I had looked forward to play the backside, and see what scores I got there, but I can understand if you don't want to make the backside :) It isn't there now, right?

Oh, and I bet some people would like this hold to be anyone edit, as there are much great scripting inside. Up to you, of course.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-31-2008 11:27 PM]
12-31-2008 at 11:24 PM
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TFMurphy
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quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Really nice to play this through with DROD RPG. I ended with a score of 354, which is a bit less than what I got when I really tried to optimize TotS. I had looked forward to play the backside, and see what scores I got there, but I can understand if you don't want to make the backside :) It isn't there now, right?
Not right now, no. And it's not all that interesting an addition: not only is it easier than the original climb, but the scoring is silly (and doesn't save your rankings anyways), the "extra" at the end is both tiny and easy (if you can defeat the Magic Master, you can defeat the extra), and the whole thing restarts *again* once you finish with no extra increases (which means you're one-hitting *everything* from that point on, and it turns from silly to... I think CSR likened it to Pac-man). To properly deal with it, I'd have to make an entirely new copy of the tower, and I wouldn't be able to replicate the endless repeating once you complete that... and... well, it really doesn't add much at all. I felt that the way it ended normally was fair enough, and worked to replicate that as best I could.

quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Oh, and I bet some people would like this hold to be anyone edit, as there are much great scripting inside. Up to you, of course.
In a month or two, I'll open it up to Anyone Edit (will hopefully have finished finding things that I want to update about it by then). Not just yet though.
01-01-2009 at 01:56 AM
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ellwilll
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by the way this is the best rpg hold i have ever played ;D

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01-01-2009 at 01:42 PM
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Loved it.

For more authenticity I believe that the ortho squares would be better, although it would make it much more annoying.

Also, I played the original TOTS (3D version) and noticed the Warp staff only works once. Is this only in the 3D version and not in the 2D version. Anyway I couldn't figure out a way to get the HOLY SWORD without the 3-use warp staff.

So glad you put that in. Thanks so much!

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01-01-2009 at 07:18 PM
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Awesome work making this hold, TFMurphy!

To mostly support playing the back side, you could provide an option at the start of the hold to enable the "2nd quest" functionality, which basically multiplies monster and item stats by 44 (iirc), and maybe tweaks the player's initial stats. Hmm...maybe equipment would have to be tweaked too. Anyway, that's enough back seat driving :P

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01-18-2009 at 03:56 AM
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jdyer
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Random strategy question: is it better at the altars to get attack or defense?
03-01-2009 at 11:52 PM
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Nuntar
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The people who play TotS aiming for the maximum possible score mostly swear by defence, but really you can do either or a mixture. I prefer the attack route myself :) Only two things to remember are: (1) don't use the first altar at all, and (2) even if you're doing a defence-only game, you still need two attack upgrades from the second altar to be able to kill Rocks. Both exactly the same as in the second half of Tendry's Tale... for some reason....

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03-02-2009 at 12:22 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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I finished the game, but I am stuck. I was told to go through the gate of time and space, but it then says that something's in the way. What now?

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03-07-2009 at 11:00 PM
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Nuntar
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Click here to view the secret text


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03-08-2009 at 09:42 PM
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Neather2
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OMG, how you did the script that when you press canc you get into the inventory???

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03-09-2009 at 12:59 PM
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Nuntar
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You can look at the scripts in the editor if you want answers to questions like that.

However, the script to get into an inventory is standard knowledge by now and has been posted several times on the forum, including in The DAA Architectural Handbook.

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03-09-2009 at 02:01 PM
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Okay, so here's the problem.


XXXXX
__TOX
XXY_X
XXX_X


T is Tendry. Y is a yellow door. O is a health potion.

You can diagonally move between Y and O with no problems, because O does not stop you from moving. You are, ergo, able to skip potions like this. I don't know if that'll overly affect final scores but I'm only like a floor in thus far.
03-10-2009 at 03:57 AM
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Neather2
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I haven't any idea for exit Ascent 3. Any helps? I got around 1500 HP, 94 atk, 78 def,8 yellow keys and 0 greackles. Thanks.

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[Last edited by Neather2 at 03-23-2009 06:16 PM]
03-23-2009 at 06:10 PM
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Nuntar
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Enter 9N, then leave and re-enter.

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03-24-2009 at 01:06 AM
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