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Snacko
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (0)  
Are there any differences in the various tarstuff's save for power?

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07-11-2008 at 09:01 PM
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hyperme wrote:
Okay, 2 Qs both dealing with "big" elements.

1)How are tarstuffs delt with? Do they need fighting? Do they attack? Do they make babies like in normal DROD? If tarstuff doesn't grow, what do mothers do?
Tar babies and mothers all have different battle stats. Tarstuffs use the same general stability and vulnerability rules as in DROD. Tar babies, if broken off, might need to be fought, but they won't move to attack you. If a tar mother is present, it makes the tarstuff in the room alive, and whenever you stab it, you will have to fight the mother to break off that piece. I'd say they make okay bosses, but regrettably aren't as dynamic an enemy as in regular DROD.
2)How are Serpents and the like delt with? A fight for each segment? A fight for the whole Snake? What is the difference between serpents, rattlesnakes and adders?
The snakes are more similar in this game than DROD. The biggest difference here is that they have different combat stats. You attack them in the head to kill them.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-11-2008 09:02 PM]
07-11-2008 at 09:02 PM
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mrimer wrote:
Sillyman wrote:
1. Are deterministic dice rolls available from scripting?
The same stuff you can do in 3.x

Aww. I just thought of that because of what the bar said. I was thinking if you were going to build dice rolls into the core engine's fighting somehow, you might as well let us architects use them. Or was that because there are some random numbers in the main hold's scripting? Huh.

On the other hand... moddable (and even scriptable) weapons sounds awesome. And so does the monster editing.

A better way to phrase my earlier question is this: Are custom monsters just a script (ruled out by your answer), or just stats and properties, making the monster act like a plain monster (or another base type, or a mix of base type features), or stats and properties and the capability to script new special triggers into the monster's fighting?

Either way, it looks like I might

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[Last edited by Sillyman at 07-11-2008 09:19 PM]
07-11-2008 at 09:13 PM
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1. Can one hack off an aumtlich's head and use its eyebeams as a weapon? Because that would be wicked awesome.

2. What role, if any, do forum in-jokes such as Stanley the Roach and wubblades have?

3. Are there bosses? Is there a final boss? Do they have EPIC BOSS MUSIC?

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07-11-2008 at 10:24 PM
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Are there other people in the Dev team? Who are they?

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07-11-2008 at 10:26 PM
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Tell us about the goblins!
07-11-2008 at 10:32 PM
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Snacko
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Are you overwhelmed by this constant flood of questions?

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07-11-2008 at 10:50 PM
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (0)  
Would it be feasible to implement NetHack (or a snapshot of a deterministic NetHack) in the engine? Basically, I'm asking as to whether you can have arbitrary numbers of unique items, as well as arbitrary stats (clairvoyance, flying, etc.)

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I think this might be too much even for DROD RPG... :)

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One of my problems in playing Tower of the Sorceror, was I would hoard locational items for a later benefit. The best illustration I can think of this is the lucky gold, which doubles the amount of money. This led (for me) to the tendancy earlier in the game to try to "save" parts of the map just by the hope of holding out just a little longer and getting to the gold doubling effect. In gameplay terms this can get highly unpleasant.

Did this effect come up in testing, and what was done to address it?

Have there been any additional measures added to assuage the fears of those like myself who didn't enjoy ToTS that much (due to lack of needed perfect information, RPG decision paralysis, etc.) that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread?

[Last edited by jdyer at 07-12-2008 02:22 AM]
07-12-2008 at 02:20 AM
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (+1)  
Sillyman wrote:
Are custom monsters ... just stats and properties, making the monster act like a plain monster (or another base type, or a mix of base type features), or stats and properties and the capability to script new special triggers into the monster's fighting?
You can use characters to script custom monsters with stats, properties, scripted combat triggers, and tools so you don't have to copy and paste the same script around to each instance of this custom monster.
Rabscuttle wrote: Tell us about the goblins!
Hehe. Attached.

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07-12-2008 at 04:15 PM
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mrimer
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Jatopian wrote:
1. Can one hack off an aumtlich's head and use its eyebeams as a weapon? Because that would be wicked awesome.
Hmm...nope :) But it would be wicked awesome.
2. What role, if any, do forum in-jokes such as Stanley the Roach and wubblades have?
I put a smattering of in-jokes in the hold, but not to lay it on too thick. However, you will see how it is easier to architect your own holds with this type of stuff than ever before.
3. Are there bosses? Is there a final boss? Do they have EPIC BOSS MUSIC?
Yes, Yes, YES! (As Danforth would say.)

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07-12-2008 at 06:00 PM
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mrimer
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Tim wrote:
Are there other people in the Dev team? Who are they?
I'd say the usual group, though most people have gotten busier over the last few years (getting a day job does that to most everyone, even those getting out of grad school). Eytan helped with story, Matt's working on CaravelNet, AlefBet and trick are maintaining the Linux build, and Oneiromancer helped with some early testing and feature design. Though they aren't posting on the forum much these days, they do hang around, and I'd welcome their input here if they have something to add. There are some changes -- for instance, instead of Erik writing the game's story and plot, this time Eytan and I put it together. And we have our usual great group of voice actors and testers to help the rest come together.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-12-2008 06:38 PM]
07-12-2008 at 06:06 PM
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aztcg7 wrote:
Would it be feasible to implement NetHack (or a snapshot of a deterministic NetHack) in the engine? Basically, I'm asking as to whether you can have arbitrary numbers of unique items, as well as arbitrary stats (clairvoyance, flying, etc.)
Hmm...you can make your own set of unique items, and that system is pretty cool, imho, but you can't add new stats to the display sidebar. However, it's much simpler to script up several types of new custom item behaviors and displays than in DROD 3.2. This game isn't designed to do everything, so I don't want anyone getting that impression and then being disappointed when they can't get the game to automatically generate random level layouts.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-12-2008 06:11 PM]
07-12-2008 at 06:09 PM
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What about skills?

I hope it's not Attack, Attack, Attack... But Tendry has different skills as Power Attack, Heal, Bandage, etc?

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07-12-2008 at 06:18 PM
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jdyer wrote:
One of my problems in playing Tower of the Sorceror, was I would hoard locational items for a later benefit. The best illustration I can think of this is the lucky gold, which doubles the amount of money. This led (for me) to the tendancy earlier in the game to try to "save" parts of the map just by the hope of holding out just a little longer and getting to the gold doubling effect. In gameplay terms this can get highly unpleasant.
This is a good question. I wouldn't say that this is necessarily an unpleasant aspect of this game's play style. I would say that if people need to know unknowable things ahead of time in order to successfully complete future areas (e.g. "magically" realizing that saving monsters now is required to net you enough gold later in order to win, then that's unfair. Unless the architect tells the player that this is how their hold is supposed to be played from the outset. I myself have tried to design the official levels so that anyone can finish the game, hopefully with a minimum amount of pain in this area. However, at the same time, I see this type of play as an area ripe for high-scorers and optimizers to relish. To simplify away this aspect of the game's nature would cheat those people out of what can be a satisfying replay experience.

To summarize, it will definitely be less painful to complete this game than TotS due to the level design issues you describe, and at the same time, there is plenty of opportunity for players to enjoy this strategy of play as much as they wish.
Did this effect come up in testing, and what was done to address it?
There were some minor things brought up that were easily addressed. Mostly isolated flaws in level design that could be patched. I haven't heard any complaints along the lines of "I just don't like that I can't see the entire world from square one!" This is a game of exploration similar to DROD, and I personally feel it would cheapen the experience to allow the player to view the entire game area at will. I've worked to make exploration in this game lower risk than in TotS.
Have there been any additional measures added to assuage the fears of those like myself who didn't enjoy ToTS that much (due to lack of needed perfect information, RPG decision paralysis, etc.) that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread?
I'd say that's an issue that the level Architect needs to address in their design. People can make holds very complex if they want, but I'd say that makes it up to the players either to rate such holds high with a super high-five, or to say "This design stinks!"

I've tried to add several areas in the official hold that make play more forgiving than the areas seen in TotS. At this point, I'm fine with testers chiming in here to share their experiences with this.

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07-12-2008 at 06:27 PM
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vittro wrote:
What about skills?

I hope it's not Attack, Attack, Attack... But Tendry has different skills as Power Attack, Heal, Bandage, etc?
Yes, these types of skills can be scripted into a hold. "Tendry's Tale" however is written to be an introduction to this unusual genre and its rare style of play. We didn't want to overwhelm the new player with all kinds of information and play options. It seems acceptable to throw dozens of selectable skills at the greenie player in your usual RPG, but those games also generally don't involve a high level of strategizing, and providing too many variables could easily lead to the "RPG decision paralysis" jdyer mentions.

Consequently, there are several special items you can find and use to do some cool things in the official hold, but for the most part, they are not fundamental to playing the game. We have laid out specific plans for potentially adding many fun, new custom items and skills into expansion campaigns (SmS holds) or full-blown sequels, but I'd first like to see how the player community at large reacts to the basic premise of the game.

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07-12-2008 at 06:37 PM
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (0)  
What about ranged weapons?

Is it possible to have a different player role?

Why did you choose a smaller room size?

Can custom enemies be bigger than 1x1?


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07-12-2008 at 07:49 PM
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How do the different rooms interlock into a larger puzzle? You said the puzzles would be more DROD like than ToTS.

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07-12-2008 at 10:17 PM
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (+1)  
Ok, chiming in a bit so that Mike doesn't have to answer *every* single question here (though note that I'm on holiday now and I don't have regular web access so you might not see me here again for a while)

vittro wrote:
What about ranged weapons?

There are no ranged weapons, unless you count mimics. On the other hand, unarmed combat is possible.

Is it possible to have a different player role?

The editor certainly has full player role functionality. I honestly don't know whether the official hold makes use of it (most of my involvement this time was in the early days of development and I haven't played or tested the full thing).

Why did you choose a smaller room size?

Only Mike can give the full answer to this, but I think it fits the style better. With persistent room states and monster movement not being a major factor, the smaller rooms don't detract anything, and there's more information to process for each element - stats and such - so that DROD-sized rooms could lead to information overload

Can custom enemies be bigger than 1x1?

Well, not trivially, but I think the scripting engine is powerful enough that clever architects may come up with many interesting surprises.

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eytanz wrote:
Can custom enemies be bigger than 1x1?
Well, not trivially, but I think the scripting engine is powerful enough that clever architects may come up with many interesting surprises.
Well, I for one hope the bosses are much bigger than 1x1... can't break with an old RPG tradition, right? :)

np: Cadence Weapon - Limited Edition OJ Slammer (Afterparty Babies)

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07-12-2008 at 11:08 PM
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How are the stats and scripting working togheter?

Can I add STR via scripting?

Can a variable retrieve the Greckles and multiply them x2?


---

When will it be releasd?

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mrimer wrote:
we're not going to say when the release date is (or anything else we don't know yet)
Still, by all means tell us if you feel like it! :)

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Is it coming out before Devilishly Dangerous Dungeons of Doom?

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07-13-2008 at 01:37 AM
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Briareos wrote:
eytanz wrote:
Can custom enemies be bigger than 1x1?
Well, not trivially, but I think the scripting engine is powerful enough that clever architects may come up with many interesting surprises.
Well, I for one hope the bosses are much bigger than 1x1... can't break with an old RPG tradition, right? :)

np: Cadence Weapon - Limited Edition OJ Slammer (Afterparty Babies)

I can already think of a way to make large monsters. I think ToTS does the same thing, in fact. Each part of the monster that fights is a different monster, and the parts that don't fight are just scripted to disappear when the rest dies. So you could have a single-battle boss that's huge by just having you kill the head.

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How is the fighting system handled? Will it be just like your traditional RPG game? Or is it different?

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07-13-2008 at 10:21 PM
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
How is the fighting system handled? Will it be just like your traditional RPG game? Or is it different?

What do you mean by a "traditionl RPG game"? There's no single tradition among RPGs. That said, the answer is probably no - the fighting system is like Tower of the Sorceror. When you engage a monster in combat, you stats determine how much damage you each do to the other each round (there's no randomness involved). The combat then proceeds, automatically, until one of you is dead. There is no partial fighting - you can't just wound something and escape - and there is no magic or other options besides just attacking.

There are a few more tactical choices here compared to DROD or Tower of the Sorceror - the direction you attack a monster from may make a difference, and you can get first strike using your sword properly. But the combat system itself is very simple.

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How are bosses handled? Are they simply monsters with a lot of HP and high stats, or are they more puzzle-like?

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07-14-2008 at 01:21 AM
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (0)  
Thanks, Eytan, for providing some input here (while on holiday, no less).

Actually, ranged attacks and weapons can be implemented via scripting, and it's actually pretty simple to write up such an item (say, with about ten script commands total, off the top of my head).
vittro wrote:
How are the stats and scripting working togheter?

Can I add STR via scripting?

Can a variable retrieve the Greckles and multiply them x2?
Yes, and much more.
pinnacle wrote: How are bosses handled?
There are no special scripting options to label a monster as a "boss". Bosses, or any other monster type, may be scripted to just be really tough, or to have puzzle elements. Large bosses may be implemented simply as sillyman suggests.
eytan wrote: There is no partial fighting - you can't just wound something and escape - and there is no magic or other options besides just attacking.
Custom monsters can actually escape during the middle of a fight if they're scripted that way. And I guess player equipment could be designed to allow the player to halt combat in the middle too, if the architect wants to design it that way. Or even special magical attacks outside of combat.

Think up all the "DROD with RPGish" stuff you'd like to do in your own holds, and you can probably implement it here in some fashion or another.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-14-2008 02:19 AM]
07-14-2008 at 02:07 AM
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icon Re: Ask questions about DROD RPG (0)  
Snacko wrote:
How do the different rooms interlock into a larger puzzle? You said the puzzles would be more DROD like than ToTS.
Rooms don't reset in this game each time you enter them like they do in DROD. So, a level can be built so parts of rooms need to be conquered in order to make progress in other rooms. A trivial example of this is keys, which can be used to open doors without orbs or pressure plates. You might (read, will) need to acquire keys in some areas that will allow access to other areas.

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07-14-2008 at 02:10 AM
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