Rheb
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File: Bug.hold (938 bytes)
Downloaded 39 times.
License: Public Domain

If you kill a giant at a closed door it doesn't leave any rock piles or golems, is that intended?

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mrimer
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Rheb wrote:
If you kill a giant at a closed door it doesn't leave any rock piles or golems, is that intended?

Think that's a bug. Rock giants should leave rock piles and golems on closed doors.

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hartleyhair
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I think leaving it as it is would have some puzzle potential, but probably a limited amount.

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Rheb
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hartleyhair wrote:
I think leaving it as it is would have some puzzle potential, but probably a limited amount.

Yeah, leaving it as it is would definitely have some puzzle potential.

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Doom
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It's not always a good idea if it adds more puzzle potential... This entire thing applies to bug abuse in general.

This is inconsistent with giant behaviour in other situations. This alone should be enough of a reason for fixing it. Build a puzzle around this and most people can't find the solution by analysing the room because it doesn't make sense - Much like unpredictable scripting.

We could solve this problem by adding mentions in tutorials, help, etc. But, if some specific simple object interaction like this can't be figured out without looking at the help even when you know how rock giants work with every other object it's probably a bad idea in the first place.

Oh, and I'm sure this would add some unintentional solutions as well. Almost any giant with freely usable toggle doors nearby could be killed with less, if any formed rocks.

mrimer
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Rheb wrote:

hartleyhair wrote:
I think leaving it as it is would have some puzzle potential, but probably a limited amount.

Yeah, leaving it as it is would definitely have some puzzle potential.

It might, but it's also an arbitrary departure from the expected behavior in an obscure situation. The current behavior is non-intuitive and saying it makes another puzzle is not a good enough reason to introduce arbitrary confusion into the game. (Take a look at builders.) DROD game elements do have their idiosyncracies, but I'd rather not compound them when in this case it sounds like it was just a coding oversight.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 01-14-2008 07:39 PM]

RoboBob3000
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Speaking of giants, I recently discovered (in a published hold that required the technique) that a giant on a hot tile doesn't immediately leave a rock pile, leaving the possibility of creating four living golems out of a giant. I don't like this behavior. I find it very counter-intuitive. Was this behavior always intentional? Are there other ways to produce four living golems from a giant?

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NoahT
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You're talking about Edge of the World, right? Note that there is also one room in Think Outside the Box that relies on this trick. As it is, there is more puzzle potential, and it doesn't seem too counter-intuitive, since heating the golem is probably slightly less direct than a sword stab. Also, AFAIK, there is no other way to get four live golems from a giant.

-Noah

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[Last edited by NoahT at 01-24-2008 09:53 PM]

coppro
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The code indicates that it is intentional, or an oversight, but the following code seems to hint that it was intentional:

inline bool bIsObstacle(const UINT wTile)
//Returns: whether splitter shard cannot be placed on this tile type
{
	//Types listed here are not placement obstacles.
	return !(wTile==T_EMPTY ||
				bIsFloor(wTile) ||
				bIsOpenDoor(wTile) ||
				bIsPlatform(wTile) ||
				bIsPotion(wTile) ||
				wTile==T_NODIAGONAL ||
				wTile==T_SCROLL ||
				wTile==T_FUSE ||
				wTile==T_TOKEN ||
				bIsArrow(wTile)
			);
}

mrimer
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Now rock giants can spawn golems on closed doors when shattered in build 55.

RoboBob3000 wrote:
Speaking of giants, I recently discovered (in a published hold that required the technique) that a giant on a hot tile doesn't immediately leave a rock pile, leaving the possibility of creating four living golems out of a giant. I don't like this behavior. I find it very counter-intuitive. Was this behavior always intentional?

Yes, it's intentional. I'm planning on leaving it as-is.

Are there other ways to produce four living golems from a giant?

No idea. Don't think so.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.