ErikH2000
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File: Down the Grimmish Hole.hold (10.4 KB)
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License: All Rights Reserved

This small hold is tightly focused on one thing--leading Aumtlich around. Aumtlich are pretty easy to kill, but being forced to keep them alive is tougher. Not that this hold tough. I'm guessing it's about a 3 or 4 for difficulty.

Feedback welcome, of course. Note that you need the DROD 3.0 engine to play it, or in other words, DROD: The City Beneath, demo or full version.

-Erik

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[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 04-16-2007 02:11 PM]

vittro
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Not bad, and it'wasnt that easy. I will give it a 5 in difficulty.
Are you making other levels, right?

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Kevin_P86
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You definitely do not need the aumtlich or the pressure plate in 1W...

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Tim
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1E: If you clear this room before 1S1E, then you cant go to 1S1E.

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Stefan
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If you clear 1S1E and head north, you're stuck. Also, there's required rooms behind the blue door.

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ErikH2000
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vittro wrote:
Not bad, and it'wasnt that easy. I will give it a 5 in difficulty.
Are you making other levels, right?

Nope. It's a mini-hold.

-Erik

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Stefan
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I'm not really sure what your intended solution to 2N1W is. I can complete it in a lot of different ways (with/without using the decoy potion; entering from the west/south; not hitting any orbs other that the ones in the bomb chambers; etc.)

Another slightly less serious backtracking issue: You can't enter 2N1E unless you do it before/while completing 1N1E.

1N1W: Should I be able to complete this room by starting with killing all but one Aumtlich?

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[Last edited by Stefan at 04-14-2007 10:48 PM]

ErikH2000
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Kevin_P86 wrote:
You definitely do not need the aumtlich or the pressure plate in 1W...

Okay, I think I have that fixed in the next version. Thanks!

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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Tim wrote:
1E: If you clear this room before 1S1E, then you cant go to 1S1E.

I know. I wanted that to be part of the puzzle. I left an explicit warning in the scripting that the hold would unfinishable if you clear 1E before going south. Do you think it's still unreasonable?

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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Stefan wrote:
If you clear 1S1E and head north, you're stuck. Also, there's required rooms behind the blue door.

Thanks. This is fixed in the next version.

-Erik

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Tim
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ErikH2000 wrote:

Tim wrote:
1E: If you clear this room before 1S1E, then you cant go to 1S1E.

I know. I wanted that to be part of the puzzle. I left an explicit warning in the scripting that the hold would unfinishable if you clear 1E before going south. Do you think it's still unreasonable?

I don't mind at all. But I think a HA might, as it is a backtracking problem.

There's also a problem with 2N1E. If you enter the room, you cannot return to 1N1E because theres no platform at (16,3).

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[Last edited by Tim at 04-14-2007 11:07 PM]

Stefan
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Tim wrote:
There's also a problem with 2N1E. If you enter the room, you cannot return to 1N1E.

That's not a problem.

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Tim
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Stefan wrote:

Tim wrote:
There's also a problem with 2N1E. If you enter the room, you cannot return to 1N1E.

That's not a problem.

I see it now. Sorry

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ErikH2000
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Stefan wrote:
I'm not really sure what your intended solution to 2N1W is. I can complete it in a lot of different ways (with/without using the decoy potion; entering from the west/south; not hitting any orbs other that the ones in the bomb chambers; etc.)

I don't know how you can beat it entering from the south. I did see unintended solutions involving using the south Aumtlich, so I replaced it with a roach in the next version.

Another slightly less serious backtracking issue: You can't enter 2N1E unless you do it before/while completing 1N1E.

Fixed.

1N1W: Should I be able to complete this room by starting with killing all but one Aumtlich?

It was supposed to be all but two. I tightened it up, and left just three Aumtlich in the room. The idea is that the player might at first mistakenly try to preserve all the Aumtlich.

-Erik

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Doom
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Here's what I found with a quick look. Will have to spend more time with this, though.

There's another related backtracking issue in 1E. Finishing it and exiting west before visiting 1S1E makes entering the puzzle half in it impossible.

It seems that you forgot an important detail in 1W. The serpent can just be killed in the top left corner. Note that something like moving the door to "6,5" won't be enough to fix this, since some smart serpent manipulation allows Beethro to open the door for the serpent. (it's actually possible to lead the serpent into the real dead end in the current version after killing the aumtlich in the beginning)

ErikH2000
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Doom wrote:
There's another related backtracking issue in 1E. Finishing it and exiting west before visiting 1S1E makes entering the puzzle half in it impossible.

I guess I don't really understand the objection. There's scripting that says "Wait! Don't do this or the hold can't be finished." That seems like a fair enough warning to me. Disagree?

It seems that you forgot an important detail in 1W. The serpent can just be killed in the top left corner. Note that something like moving the door to "6,5" won't be enough to fix this, since some smart serpent manipulation allows Beethro to open the door for the serpent. (it's actually possible to lead the serpent into the real dead end in the current version after killing the aumtlich in the beginning)

I did move the door to 6,5 in the next version. I'm okay with someone figuring out how to kill the serpent after the aumtlich, as long as its about as difficult as the first solution.

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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The attachment at the top is updated with fixes for issues brought up so far. Much thanks to the guinea pigs!

-Erik

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Ezlo
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In once west you can also kill the Aumtlich, drop the trapdoors, and wait on the scroll for the snake to die.

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Doom
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ErikH2000 wrote:

Doom wrote:
There's another related backtracking issue in 1E. Finishing it and exiting west before visiting 1S1E makes entering the puzzle half in it impossible.

I guess I don't really understand the objection. There's scripting that says "Wait! Don't do this or the hold can't be finished." That seems like a fair enough warning to me. Disagree?

Was that there in the first version (I updated already)? In any case, I had missed it. And only now noticed that Tim had already mentioned it...

I suppose it's okay, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to build it to allow passing through later. I don't personally like the idea a lot, but it can probably stay.

If you want to script it, it might be a good idea to fill the small hole in the script: Conquering the room, stepping past the yellow door, and exiting *west* never triggers the speech.

It seems that you forgot an important detail in 1W. The serpent can just be killed in the top left corner. Note that something like moving the door to "6,5" won't be enough to fix this, since some smart serpent manipulation allows Beethro to open the door for the serpent. (it's actually possible to lead the serpent into the real dead end in the current version after killing the aumtlich in the beginning)

I did move the door to 6,5 in the next version. I'm okay with someone figuring out how to kill the serpent after the aumtlich, as long as its about as difficult as the first solution.

That's fine. I'd say that the serpent solution is a bit more difficult.

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[Last edited by Doom at 04-14-2007 11:54 PM]

Stefan
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I don't know how you can beat it entering from the south. I did see unintended solutions involving using the south Aumtlich, so I replaced it with a roach in the next version.

Begin by killing all three Aumtlich. Then you can either light the remaining fuse with the decoy or hit the orbs and light it yourself.

I haven't checked the latest version, so perhaps it's fixed now.

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Stefan
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Are you sure 1N1W is currently possible? Closing the door cuts the fuse...

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ErikH2000
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Doom wrote:
I suppose it's okay, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to build it to allow passing through later. I don't personally like the idea a lot, but it can probably stay.

I don't think the puzzle of returning to the room to defeat it is really worth the inelegance of telling the player they've screwed up. I've just revised the room to force the room to be conquered on first visit. Plus, I don't feel like being a special case to the "backtracking" rule that HAs are supposed to enforce.

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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Stefan wrote:
Begin by killing all three Aumtlich. Then you can either light the remaining fuse with the decoy or hit the orbs and light it yourself.

Okay, that unintended solution is fixed in the next version.

-Erik

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The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
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ErikH2000
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Stefan wrote:
Are you sure 1N1W is currently possible? Closing the door cuts the fuse...

Doh! Okay, I fixed it in the next version, and replayed to make sure it was solvable. Sorry for cutting corners with my previous fix.

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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Latest version at the top has fixes for all the previously described issues.

-Erik

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Jeff_Ray...
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This is a pretty tricky hold, Erik! But they're nice. Will you make any more holds in the future?

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My Holds:
-Completed:

-Work in Progress:

ErikH2000
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
This is a pretty tricky hold, Erik! But they're nice. Will you make any more holds in the future?

Thanks, Jeff. I think I will, but you never know. I've got a bunch of other Caravel stuff I should work on, and this was really just a pleasant diversion for me.

-Erik

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Pinnacle
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So, you won't be making an SmS or a level in DROD 4, or something big like that?

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Stefan
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File: DtGH The Entrance 2N1W Victory.demo (987 bytes)
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License: Public Domain

My solution to 2N1W still feels a bit unintentional. Here's my demo.

Edit: What is the intended solution?

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[Last edited by Stefan at 04-15-2007 02:38 AM]

ErikH2000
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Pinnacle wrote:
So, you won't be making an SmS or a level in DROD 4, or something big like that?

Maybe, but I hate to commit to anything. I just don't have much time to spend on Caravel stuff, and I usually focus on the things that other people aren't doing. Me working on a little hold like this is mainly just a self-indulgance, or perhaps more constructively, a way to keep in touch with what it's like to make DROD holds and release them.

And I don't want to sound coy, like it would be some huge event if I came out of "retirement". I can make good levels if I work at it, but lots of other people have had more practice than me, particularly with the elements from JtRH and TCB.

-Erik

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