BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

Why not have a button that allows you to call up help on specific rooms from within the game? What I'm generally thinking of is a button that, when clicked, sends the room data to the get help for a room utility and so comes up with the relevant list of topics, which you then can click on/click a button to go look at them (if they exist). Now, ideally, if there weren't any topics about the rooms that give people problems, you'd get the opportunity to make one in-game, and you'd be able to see what others wrote about the room you're stuck on if topics did exist in-game as well, but I've no idea how easy that would be to implement. I think the only other issue is that (for those poor souls who haven't sent $12 for CaravelNet) a grayed out button implying possible help might be a bit confrontational/insolent.

---

[Last edited by BDR at 02-10-2007 08:22 AM]

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
Why not have a button that allows you to call up help on specific rooms from within the game?

Doesn't even have to be within the game - just fire up the user's web browser with the URL to bring up the "Get Help For A Room" results page for the room you're currently in.

Sure, this would need a bit of platform-specific code, but I think it would totally be worth it.

np: Bola - 01706 (0161)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

yeah, this would be very useful. Not only would it save people having to crawl though the lists looking for the hold that they want, and the appropriate level, but it would also help people who don't know where to look for hints.

On the other hand, some people might not want the temptation of hints in their game window.

halyavin
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 52
Registered: 02-20-2006
IP: Logged

May be it is better to direct peoples to DROD solver .

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

halyavin wrote:
May be it is better to direct peoples to DROD solver .

I think most people would prefer getting subtle or sometimes not so subtle hints over getting or not getting a complete solution...

np: Bola - Eluus (Gnayse)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

What, and cannibalise the biggest draw to the Caravel forums?

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

Ravon
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 220
Registered: 02-19-2004
IP: Logged

I'm not so sure about this idea. It would definitely be convenient, but sometimes I decide to play the room once or twice more before I go through the hassle of either posting to or reading the hints and solutions topic. If there was no trouble involved in locating the room, I may jump at the promise of hints without really trying to beat the room myself.

I might be completely in the minority here, so feel free to disagree.

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

It could be an added feature of CaravelNet.

To tell you the truth, I was just thinking of this myself, and was going to add it to my entry in this month's contest.

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

Ezlo wrote:
It could be an added feature of CaravelNet.

I personally tend to find that intentionally weakened features in shareware (besides, of course, limited level access & whatnot) which serve only as incentive to spend money typically annoy. It's like "we could make this easy for you, but you're not a hardcore DROD player, so we're going to make it less convenient for you to get help".

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

Kevin_P86
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 535
Registered: 06-28-2005
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:
I personally tend to find that intentionally weakened features in shareware (besides, of course, limited level access & whatnot) which serve only as incentive to spend money typically annoy. It's like "we could make this easy for you, but you're not a hardcore DROD player, so we're going to make it less convenient for you to get help".

That's why I agree with this, which wouldn't require a CaravelNet subscription to be available. It would just skip the steps of having to open your browser, navigate to the Hints and Solutions board, click "Get Help for a Room", and select the hold and room you want help for.

Briareos wrote:
Doesn't even have to be within the game - just fire up the user's web browser with the URL to bring up the "Get Help For A Room" results page for the room you're currently in.

Sure, this would need a bit of platform-specific code, but I think it would totally be worth it.

____________________________
+++++[>+++++<-]>[>+++>++++>+++++<<<-]>.>+.>-------.<++++.+++++.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

One way that this could become very useful would be if it required a set of triggers to appear, thus encouraging the users to have a go.

For example, it might only appear after 200 moves, 2 minutes and 3 deaths. Of course, it could be cheated easily, but it would be a great incentive.

golfrman
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 165
Registered: 07-10-2006
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:
It's like "we could make this easy for you, but you're not a hardcore DROD player, so we're going to make it less convenient for you to get help".

yep, just like bieng able to download the top demos ingame with a subscription, but not without one.

____________________________
Jesus is Lord and Messiah!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

golfrman wrote:

Jatopian wrote:
It's like "we could make this easy for you, but you're not a hardcore DROD player, so we're going to make it less convenient for you to get help".

yep, just like bieng able to download the top demos ingame with a subscription, but not without one.

The way I see it, Caravel charges for features that require additional cost to maintain, like having a database of demo's, tracking peoples highscores etcetera. This feature really doesn't fall under that category.

---

[Last edited by NiroZ at 02-11-2007 03:08 AM : One additional is enough.]

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

NiroZ wrote:
One way that this could become very useful would be if it required a set of triggers to appear, thus encouraging the users to have a go.

For example, it might only appear after 200 moves, 2 minutes and 3 deaths. Of course, it could be cheated easily, but it would be a great incentive.

There can of course be extremely difficult rooms where you cannot die, though. IE: All those puzzles in Bavato's involving manipulating a lone wraithwing. Or that one in Bavato's level 6 with the snake, 2 roaches and the invisibility potions.

In fact, many manipulation puzzles in general only give you a chance to die if you've already solved the puzzle, or not at all. So a minimum death count before this feature applies is not a good thing.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

Beef Row wrote:

NiroZ wrote:
For example, it might only appear after 200 moves, 2 minutes and 3 deaths. Of course, it could be cheated easily, but it would be a great incentive.

There can of course be extremely difficult rooms where you cannot die, though. IE: All those puzzles in Bavato's involving manipulating a lone wraithwing. Or that one in Bavato's level 6 with the snake, 2 roaches and the invisibility potions.

Excellent point; have one of rank.
This also applies to move count, as some rooms cannot be survived for that many moves without figuring out the solution.

NiroZ wrote:

golfrman wrote:

Jatopian wrote:
It's like "we could make this easy for you, but you're not a hardcore DROD player, so we're going to make it less convenient for you to get help".

yep, just like bieng able to download the top demos ingame with a subscription, but not without one.

The way I see it, Caravel charges for features that require additional additional cost to maintain, like having a database of demo's, tracking peoples highscores etcetera. This feature really doesn't fall under that category.

Precisely. I was having difficulty articulating that part.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

---

[Last edited by Jatopian at 02-11-2007 02:43 AM : added NiroZ quote & response]

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Beef Row wrote:
In fact, many manipulation puzzles in general only give you a chance to die if you've already solved the puzzle, or not at all. So a minimum death count before this feature applies is not a good thing.

too true.

Perhaps if it waited 2 minutes and 200 turns, or entering the room for a second time?

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

10 restarts?

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The only thing that aggravated me about God of War was that if you died a certain number of times in a section, it would start to laugh at you by asking "Do you want to switch to easy mode?". It only happened to me never, but I saw it happen to my suitemate.

Thus, if this were implemented, I'd want it as something that the player has to do--the player has to ask for help, not be told that (s)he needs it.

____________________________

tonyk
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 10-09-2005
IP: Logged

I think it's a great idea to have an H&S clickable option in the UI (I'd already thought of adding it to my contest entry). Sure, many new players will tend to "abuse" the feature but thats mostly who its there for (not forum veterans) and players should be in charge of when they surrender (without restrictions). It would also add immersion into the forum community for new players.

Those wanting to remove temptation could avail themselves of an option under the settings.

____________________________
Life is hard. DROD, harder.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

tonyk wrote:
Those wanting to remove temptation could avail themselves of an option under the settings.

Considering its a temptation issue, I don't think it would change much.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

Well, considering all I did was have it in window mode and a browser window up for H&S alongside, which wasn't really much work, really, making it easier wouldn't be too terrifying.

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

I thought I might end up pre-empting a person or two's contest entry!

I have to agree with the whole "no laughing at the player" bit; it should always be an available option. The only real reason to have even fanfare for the help in is to make sure the player is aware of the existence of easily-accessed help. The only question fanfare for help has to answer is: how to get the player's attention attracted to the help without annoying them? But now that I think about it, maybe something like the Help Cat would work.. (a Help Roach/Halph?)

As for temptation issues, I'd have to say that the people who are easily tempted to go looking for help when they could do it themselves with a bit more effort aren't going to be dissuaded by the lack of a button like this; I know, I was one once (during my N64 days, I had a Gameshark, and used it to rip through Goldeneye on 00 Agent mode [Bulletproof Bond ftw], among other games), but I fortunately realized that even though I was beating the games I wasn't actually accomplishing anything worthwhile (or having a lot of fun in doing so, so I stopped and now only try to get help if I get stuck for over half an hour [which sometimes are on such minor things that I have to spend another just to figure out what I missed!]). Those who can easily resist such temptations are similarly going to be very capable of ignoring the help button.

---

[Last edited by BDR at 02-11-2007 09:08 PM]

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
The only real reason to have even fanfare for the help in is to make sure the player is aware of the existence of easily-accessed help. The only question fanfare for help has to answer is: how to get the player's attention attracted to the help without annoying them? But now that I think about it, maybe something like the Help Cat would work.. (a Help Roach/Halph?)

You mean, like the things that can replace Clippy in M$ Office? No thanks... No thanks.
How about just a teeny lil button in a corner or by the room coordinates that says "Get help for this room".

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
Registered: 03-01-2005
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
how to get the player's attention attracted to the help without annoying them? ... maybe something like the Help Cat would work.

You mean you're not incredibly annoyed by those animated "help" things?

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
...(a Help Roach/Halph?)...

Hey, this idea is copyrighted to me under the "Never ever shall this abomination see the light of day" license.

A button to open the room help topic in the DROD browser would be really neat though.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Maurog wrote:

BDR wrote:
...(a Help Roach/Halph?)...

Hey, this idea is copyrighted to me under the "Never ever shall this abomination see the light of day" license.

Actually, it's licensed under public domain

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:
You mean, like the things that can replace Clippy in M$ Office?

No, I do not mean Clippy. Obviously nobody here knows about the Help Cat... Watch the video and you'll get a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

Jatopian wrote:
You mean, like the things that can replace Clippy in M$ Office? No thanks... No thanks.

Well, here is a replacement that I can absolutely live with...



____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1306
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

Why don't you just go here?

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

Because I wanted to share the idea.. and I'm not sure exactly where I'd start.. and.... I dunno. I guess I'm just not sure if I'd come up with something good. That and it'd be some work (which is a four letter word in my book).