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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : Ironman Mode (Webfoot DROD Nostalgia)
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Maurog
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Remember the good old days when there was no undo, and no checkpoints? Even the simplest room was a challenge to overcome, and completing it gave you the feeling of a job well done. Not to mention tasks like the three tar mother room, which are hard even by modern-day standards, but were achievements of heroic proportions back in the days.

However, with each new release DROD offered more and more handicaps for the less capable users. First the checkpoints, then undo, and soon we all will enjoy the unlimited undo feature. This is a good thing, which makes the game friendlier for new people, and new people are always welcome.

I think there should be a possibility to create a character in hardcore mode. This is not a new concept by any means, featured in many games. Hardcore or Ironman mode will have some of the features disabled, namely the checkpoints and undo. In addition, there will be a small icon near their name in highscores to signify that they are Ironman.

That's all there is to it really, I think it would be a nice feature for the competitive folks out there.

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11-12-2006 at 11:14 AM
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Timo006
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I think that, in the settings, there is already a possibility to disable checkpoints, so that you can't see and use any checkpoints. and if you don't want the undo just don't press backspace.

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11-12-2006 at 11:30 AM
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Remlin
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It's true Drod's picked up more handicaps, but at the same time, the game itself has become harder. KDD isn't nearly the pinnacle of difficulty it once was - according to our hold ratings, KDD 2.0 just barely passed the midpoint in difficulty. I think a large part of that is the so-called 'handicaps' pushing back the limits of what kinds of rooms are feasible in Drod.

I guess what I'm saying is, checkpoints and undo are now an integral part of Drod, and the current difficulty of the game has evolved around them. To have some sort of special leaderboard or designation for people who don't want to use them makes about as much sense as having one for people who don't use the up button - it's a senseless restriction you arbitrarily decide to impose upon yourself, and if it makes you feel good about yourself that's great, but don't expect me to care.
11-12-2006 at 12:34 PM
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krammer
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If you *really* want to be masochistic, try to play as in the timed mode on Webfoot. Remember that? If you didn't move within 10 seconds, the monsters moved anyway.

I don't think many people bothered, which is why it was taken out for the Caravel release.

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11-12-2006 at 01:39 PM
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eytanz
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Let me just second everything Remlin said. I'd be happier if the option to turn off checkpoints was removed completely, because I feel that it's presence sends the wrong message to hold architects.

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11-12-2006 at 01:43 PM
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michthro
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I'm with Remlin. Architects have taken into account the addition of checkpoints and undo, and accordingly added previously unfeasible rooms. I replayed KDD not so long ago, and after what larrymurk and Doom have toughened me up with, I found it really, really easy (but fun, and still one of the best holds).

Btw, if you like arbitrary masochistic challenges, how about a blindfold mode? You have 2 seconds to see what the room looks like, then it goes black until you die or conquer it. No, no sound effects.
11-12-2006 at 02:36 PM
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zex20913
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Except death, so you know you screwed up.

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11-12-2006 at 02:44 PM
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Maurog
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Remlin has a point. With introduction of checkpoints the architects were able to make harder holds while maintaining the same level of difficulty. With introduction of the undo button the architects were *pushed* to make even harder holds, just to remain on the same difficulty level. Who knows what future changes we shall see, and how the balance will be restored....

I believe there is a direct link between the undo feature and the fact that architects are less inclined to add checkpoints to their holds these days. And yes, either way the option to disable checkpoints is useless. Maybe the classic Ironman mode isn't such a good idea after all. It belongs to older, more cruel times.

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11-12-2006 at 02:51 PM
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Briareos
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Why not add a "hardcore mode" that is so popular with "Action RPGs" these days?

What's dead, stays dead. Especially that player you just made for the umpteenth time in a row that got bitten by the third roach he encountered... :D

np: Underworld - Born Slippy Nuxx (Underworld 1992-2002 (Disc 2))

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11-12-2006 at 02:55 PM
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trick
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And then, if you die, the game is uninstalled and your CaravelNet membership expires. COIN-OP!

But seriously, I actually think that having an option to disable undo could be nice. Just as a way to challenge yourself, nothing else. You know, for those of us that have gotten so used to it that we instinctively reach for the undo button whenever we die even if we have to restart in any case..

I don't like the idea of a high-score icon, though.

~ Gerry
11-12-2006 at 03:38 PM
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Someone Else
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If you want to disable undo, get someone to set it as a random key for you, like Page Up, for example.
11-12-2006 at 06:21 PM
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NiroZ
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Remlin wrote:
It's true Drod's picked up more handicaps, but at the same time, the game itself has become harder. KDD isn't nearly the pinnacle of difficulty it once was - according to our hold ratings, KDD 2.0 just barely passed the midpoint in difficulty.

That's because the rating system is based on KDD being 5 brains, nothing to do with evolution.
11-12-2006 at 10:20 PM
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eytanz
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NiroZ wrote:
Remlin wrote:
It's true Drod's picked up more handicaps, but at the same time, the game itself has become harder. KDD isn't nearly the pinnacle of difficulty it once was - according to our hold ratings, KDD 2.0 just barely passed the midpoint in difficulty.

That's because the rating system is based on KDD being 5 brains, nothing to do with evolution.

Well, the fact that it is the midpoint is because the scale is defined this way. The fact that there are many holds higher - and some significantly higher - on the same scale is a result of evolution.

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11-12-2006 at 10:27 PM
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Blondbeard
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Maurog wrote:
Remember the good old days when there was no undo, and no checkpoints? Even the simplest room was a challenge to overcome, and completing it gave you the feeling of a job well done. Not to mention tasks like the three tar mother room, which are hard even by modern-day standards, but were achievements of heroic proportions back in the days.

However, with each new release DROD offered more and more handicaps for the less capable users. First the checkpoints, then undo.

Yes, and let's not forget the clock, and the ability to click orbs. Remember how fun it was to run around the whole room to check what all the orbs did, and write it up on paper? Do you remember the sheer pleasure of counting to thirty inside your head. It was a pure delight when you where a move off, and tarbabys spawned in a way that would kill you for sure.

Serioussly: The serpent clock rocks! It has made me into a much, much better player. Undo has also made me better. The ability to undo encourages me to try out new things. The handicaps are not just there for "the less capable players". They are also there to make the game more enjoyable for a majority of the very capable players (at least I think they do).

Back when I started playing DROD mr. blond and stupid had a very difficult time of learning ehich way Beethro turned when he pressed q, and which way Beethro turned when he pressed w. It was NOT very fun to die repeatedly because of that.
11-13-2006 at 08:43 AM
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NiroZ
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And yet again!
I wonder, is this a popularity contest? Because I will be sure to win!

eytanz wrote:
NiroZ wrote:
Remlin wrote:
It's true Drod's picked up more handicaps, but at the same time, the game itself has become harder. KDD isn't nearly the pinnacle of difficulty it once was - according to our hold ratings, KDD 2.0 just barely passed the midpoint in difficulty.

That's because the rating system is based on KDD being 5 brains, nothing to do with evolution.

Well, the fact that it is the midpoint is because the scale is defined this way. The fact that there are many holds higher - and some significantly higher - on the same scale is a result of evolution.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of those really hard holds released in AE?
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[Last edited by NiroZ at 05-30-2007 04:52 PM]
11-13-2006 at 08:59 AM
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eytanz
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Other than Bavato's dungeon, most of the holds considered "really hard" back in the DROD:AE days seem easier today as well. Look at Clayton's tower, for instance. Or look at Tomb of Nomb - when I released it, people were giving it 8 brains of difficulty. Today I doubt it'd warrent 6.

Also, AE had checkpoints, and was therefore already closer to today's DROD than Webfoot was.

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11-13-2006 at 01:19 PM
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Mattcrampy
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I find it interesting that the suggestion is basically to have a special badge for not agreeing with the design decisions of the DROD team.

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11-14-2006 at 04:21 PM
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Ezlo
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I think this would be an interesting option to but in for just amusements sake. I don't think special credit for completing rooms with it on should be given, but I would certainly be fun to try it once in a while. How hard would it be to add it in the settings menu?
11-14-2006 at 04:24 PM
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Jatopian
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Ezlo wrote:
I think this would be an interesting option to but in for just amusements sake. I don't think special credit for completing rooms with it on should be given, but I would certainly be fun to try it once in a while. How hard would it be to add it in the settings menu?
Basically, it's not how hard it is, but how worthwhile it is. This suggestion has a effort:reward ratio of x:0, where x is a positive real number. Because the ratio must be smaller than 1:1, this idea is right out.
Jatopian is not a spokesperson for Caravel; any opinions expressed in this post are merely his own and do not represent Caravel.

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11-14-2006 at 11:18 PM
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Ezlo
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Yeah, but if something is simple enough, I think it wouldn't hurt to spend a half hour on it if it would make a few people happy. Which is why I asked how hard it would be.
11-14-2006 at 11:27 PM
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Banjooie
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Mattcrampy wrote:
I find it interesting that the suggestion is basically to have a special badge for not agreeing with the design decisions of the DROD team.

Do you see this post? This is the important post in this thread.
11-14-2006 at 11:35 PM
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Maurog
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I resent that, Matt is twisting my words like a rattlesnake!
What I had in mind was merely asking the DROD team to make design decisions according to my whims!

Err... I mean, create an option which may appeal to a previously neglected part of the DROD-playing community, while at the same time reminding us about the charm of the original product. :shifty

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11-15-2006 at 02:45 PM
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Mattcrampy
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Err... I mean, create an option which may appeal to a previously neglected part of the DROD-playing community, while at the same time reminding us about the charm of the original product.

I believe my response on this issue can be best be summarised by this Flash file.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1510630

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11-16-2006 at 02:17 AM
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Maurog
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File: Hmmm.jpg (40.2 KB)
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11-16-2006 at 06:49 AM
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Jatopian
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Maurog wrote:
Hmmm?
The link is broken. :brklnk

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11-16-2006 at 10:52 PM
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AtkinsSJ
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Jatopian wrote:
Maurog wrote:
Hmmm?
The link is broken. :brklnk
Plus, ONOS! Star Trek!
11-16-2006 at 11:03 PM
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Someone Else
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I heard from somewhere (I dont remember where, I don't even know if it's true) that in webfoot Drod there was a 10 second timer. If you didn't move in that time, the monsters would move anyways. If we implemented this but with, say a 2 second timer (and no undo and no checkpoints) then the idea might have some merit.
11-16-2006 at 11:05 PM
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AtkinsSJ
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What, you mean a kind-of action DROD?
I'm curious as to how it would play, but that's pretty-much breaking the whole idea of DROD. Still, as something seperate from the main game, it could work. Just not as a web-based representation of DROD.
11-16-2006 at 11:12 PM
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Syntax
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Someone Else wrote:
I heard from somewhere (I dont remember where, I don't even know if it's true) that in webfoot Drod there was a 10 second timer.
Probably krammer's post further up in this thread ;)
11-17-2006 at 10:07 AM
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Blondbeard
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AtkinsSJ wrote:
What, you mean a kind-of action DROD?
I'm curious as to how it would play, but that's pretty-much breaking the whole idea of DROD. Still, as something seperate from the main game, it could work. Just not as a web-based representation of DROD.

Well... no, it isn't. It just means that a two seconds wait is equivilent to pressing 5. I think this is a good idea, although I would never be able to make my moves in two seconds. it would certanly be a good training in seeing solutions fast, although I guess some holds would be nearly unplayable. Two seconds... :no
11-17-2006 at 11:46 AM
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