Re: Museum of themes

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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Museum of themes (Linchpin, manipulation, and horde)

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Kalin
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File: Museum of themes.demo (29.5 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Those arrows weren't in the version I downloaded earlier this month. And they killed all my demos for this room, except the one where I cheat and kill the south-facing eye on the firetrap.

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06-26-2024 at 12:03 AM

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Kalin
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

MoP:1S1W challenge

Kalin wrote:
Those arrows weren't in the version I downloaded earlier this month. And they killed all my demos for this room, except the one where I cheat and kill the south-facing eye on the firetrap.

I can modify the challenge script to stop this cheat, but I'm starting to wonder if it might block the intended solution too. The change is to create a fail state if any stabbing happens between waking that eye and seeing an eye on the firetrap.

I've spent three days now trying to figure out your solution, but I have no idea how that door could possibly help (nor the wall you left in place). I can almost recreate my solution by pushing a stunned WW over there, but he always escapes at the last second.

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06-28-2024 at 06:36 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Kalin wrote:
MoP:1S1W challenge

Kalin wrote:
Those arrows weren't in the version I downloaded earlier this month. And they killed all my demos for this room, except the one where I cheat and kill the south-facing eye on the firetrap.
I can modify the challenge script to stop this cheat, but I'm starting to wonder if it might block the intended solution too. The change is to create a fail state if any stabbing happens between waking that eye and seeing an eye on the firetrap.

I've spent three days now trying to figure out your solution, but I have no idea how that door could possibly help (nor the wall you left in place). I can almost recreate my solution by pushing a stunned WW over there, but he always escapes at the last second.

I am not at home this weekend so I can watch your demo next week, though I am quite curious to see what you did.
I cannot recall perfectly which wall you are talking, I will check it.
The intended solution involves the golem rubble and the ww, and the door is to protect you from the evil eye after he follows you, since I was not able to survive and manipulate him in that tiny space, though it might be possible.
I will post my solution next week (though I have to redo it since the demo broke for me too).

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06-28-2024 at 10:49 PM

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Red-XIII
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File: Mot Master of puppets 1S1W Victory.demo (2.9 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Kalin wrote:
MoP:1S1W challenge

I can modify the challenge script to stop this cheat, but I'm starting to wonder if it might block the intended solution too. The change is to create a fail state if any stabbing happens between waking that eye and seeing an eye on the firetrap.

I've spent three days now trying to figure out your solution, but I have no idea how that door could possibly help (nor the wall you left in place). I can almost recreate my solution by pushing a stunned WW over there, but he always escapes at the last second.

New update:

I attached my solution for MoP 1S1W. For the thing I intended, it is not necessary to stab anything before killing the eye, so maybe your fix should work?

Also, I created a script (based on your MoP 1W script) for the Ah! 2S1E challenge. It seems to work fine but could you confirm me that please? I keep on thinking that your solution seems easier though...

Would you be so kind to check the scripting (not necessarily testing if you don't like hordes) for Nightmare 1S1W and 2S as well?

Testing and feedback remaining:

MoP: 1S, 1S1E, 1S2E.

AtW: 2S, 2S1E, 2S2E, 1S1E.

Nightmare: all of it. Warning, the challenge in 2S is probably the hardest thing I ever built.

Any additional feedback is obviously welcome!

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 07-01-2024 06:52 PM]

07-01-2024 at 06:51 PM

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Kalin
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Re: Museum of themes (+1)

Red-XIII wrote:
I attached my solution for MoP 1S1W. For the thing I intended, it is not necessary to stab anything before killing the eye, so maybe your fix should work?

Ah! I was close, but didn't think of your trick on turn 538.

Okay, this pair of scripts should work:
Citizen Fail:

Click here to view the secret text

  Set var "MoP_1S1W_fail" = 0
  Wait while entity type Evil eye,7,23,7,23
  Wait for event Monster stabbed
  Set var "MoP_1S1W_fail" = 1

Citizen Success

Click here to view the secret text

  Wait while entity type Evil eye,7,23,7,23
  Wait for entity type Evil eye (active),17,19,17,19
  If ... 
        Wait until var "MoP_1S1W_fail" = 1
     Go to Done
  If End 
  Wait for entity Player 29,12,29,12
  Challenge completed Staff master
Label Done

Trying some variations on my own, I don't think it's possible to get the eye onto the firetrap if you're holding the spear when you wake it.

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07-02-2024 at 01:33 AM

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Kalin
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File: Mot Master of puppets 1S Victory.demo (6.8 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (+1)

MoP:1S
I've been avoiding this room because it looks complicated, but today I finally did it. I wasted a ton of time trying to use the wrong monster as bait. And I don't understand the point of

Click here to view the secret text

EDIT:
Challenge:

Click here to view the secret text

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[Last edited by Kalin at 07-04-2024 03:13 AM]

07-04-2024 at 02:22 AM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Thank you very much for the script, MoP 1S1W seems to work perfectly.

MoP 1S: really nice catch that you could re-enter from the other entrance, it should be fixed now. Also, that was an US with the perfect diagonal for the eye, I don't quite like it. However, all of the rest is intended, so I want to keep the eye manipulation as well. Hopefully fixed now.

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

07-04-2024 at 09:18 PM

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KituU
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Re: Museum of themes (+1)

Red-XIII wrote:

Check if Nightmare and Ah! 2S1E challenges scripts are ok

Hi ! started playing your hold , so much fun so far!
Checking the challenge Ah! 2S1E : just killing the goblin awards the challenge, no need to solve the room

07-06-2024 at 08:16 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

KituU wrote:

Red-XIII wrote:

Check if Nightmare and Ah! 2S1E challenges scripts are ok

Hi ! started playing your hold , so much fun so far!
Checking the challenge Ah! 2S1E : just killing the goblin awards the challenge, no need to solve the room

Thank you for spotting that and playing this!

Ok, this is another proof of me being unable to script challenges :~(

Can anyone help me fix it?

Also, do you feel like the challenge is harder to find than the intended solution?

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

07-07-2024 at 12:03 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Ah 1W Victory KituU.demo (4.5 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Red-XIII wrote:
Also, do you feel like the challenge is harder to find than the intended solution?

Hi, didn't solve the room yet

Ah! Once West : suppose unintended solution

07-07-2024 at 04:07 PM

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Kalin
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Red-XIII wrote:

KituU wrote: Checking the challenge Ah! 2S1E : just killing the goblin awards the challenge, no need to solve the room
Can anyone help me fix it?

Add a "Wait for room clear" above the challenge command.

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07-07-2024 at 04:45 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

KituU, nice finding, and easy to fix. It should be ok now.

Thank you Kalin!

We are getting close!

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

07-07-2024 at 05:07 PM

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KituU
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Hi,
downloaded latest version.
It will not recognize any demos of rooms solved, and the only option is to start a new game, i had a lot of rooms solved !

Edit: all is good, i could restore to furthest safe, don't know why
had to do it this way, it used to be different

[Last edited by KituU at 07-08-2024 06:46 PM]

07-08-2024 at 06:38 PM

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Kalin
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Red-XIII wrote:
Would you be so kind to check the scripting (not necessarily testing if you don't like hordes) for Nightmare 1S1W and 2S as well?

Those two scripts look fine.

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07-09-2024 at 06:44 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Thank you, Kalin!

KituU, could you send me the demos you made? I am curious to see if there are some US. Also, are you planning to play the horde levels as well?

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

07-15-2024 at 07:50 AM

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KituU
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File: Museum of themes- Demos KituU.demo (32.8 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Re: Museum of themes (0)

Hi

Upload demos so far, did not finished the hold yet, awesome so far.

Like so very much to have access to all rooms, it is the best experience for the player to choose which room to play.

Some rooms with challenges do not have seeding beacon

Some notes :

Click here to view the secret text

07-17-2024 at 07:26 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

KituU wrote:
Some rooms with challenges do not have seeding beacon

Some notes :

Click here to view the secret text
×
Master of puppets 1S 2E : challenge: Golem killed at (24,25) had no use at all, did not replay the room, but you need only 2 golems.

Master of puppets 1S1W : challenge: could not solve it.

Obey your master 1N1E : scroll reads "need to be scripted" ?

Nightmare 1S1W : found it fun and not hard at all, much less difficult then the other rooms in this level, do not know if you made changes to the room as the scroll reads it could be too difficult. Token vision maybe could be in a better place

Against thee wickedly 1N1E : this room has no comparison with 1E ( 1E is much more challenging. would not replace it), i think you could leave both rooms

Thank you so much for the feedback! I updated the hold in the first post. Some comments:

Click here to view the secret text

07-17-2024 at 09:06 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Ah 2S1E Victory- KituU.demo (6 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Re: Museum of themes (0)

Red-XIII wrote:

Ah! 2S1E: another US here! Hopefully fixed.

Hi
Still similar solution.
( i suppose your intended solution involves using the goblin? )

07-20-2024 at 01:44 AM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

KituU wrote:
Hi
Still similar solution.
( i suppose your intended solution involves using the goblin? )

Another nice, but US solution. This room is driving me crazy!

Yes, the intended solution involves the goblin, and then Kalin found another cool solution, which I tried to implement as a challenge, though I still don't know which solution the player will find first, or will think it's easier.

Hopefully fixed.

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

07-21-2024 at 12:49 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Ah 2S1E Victory- again.demo (6.2 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Hi !
Again, similar solution .
(Anyway, maybe it is fun to have different possible solutions)

07-21-2024 at 06:39 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

KituU wrote:
Hi !
Again, similar solution .
(Anyway, maybe it is fun to have different possible solutions)

In general, I agree with that philosophy. In this case, however, your solution and Kalin's solution completely destroy the one I had in mind. Also, I could not find a way to keep both your solution and Kalin's, so sadly I had to fix both of them.

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

07-21-2024 at 09:10 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Nightmare 1W Victory.demo (6 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Hi!
Did not have time to play last week, and did not download latest version yet, i upload what i have

Nightmare 1W : found it difficult !, many tries, and as always with guards much undo needed. Did not use upper horn .

Nightmare 1S1W : even with challenge did not find difficult at all

Eureka 1S1W : very nice puzzle , only 1 gel baby needed

07-31-2024 at 07:41 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Eureka 1W Victory.demo (5.5 KB)
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Eureka 1W : this one seems unintended solution ?

07-31-2024 at 07:43 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

What a nice feedback!

Nightmare 1W: Amazing show, I hope this was not too much trial and error. In my solution I used the upper horn to clear the remaining babies while I enter the alcove toward the tar mother, but I realize now that this is an architecture mistake. The open black door serves no purpose since there will always be tar under the mother. Thus, I completely removed that part and left it horde-only. However, I added another horn, so hopefully that will make it less trial and error.

Nightmare 1S1W: nice! I don't mind if you found it not too difficult.

Eureka! 1W: Yes, that's an US. thanks for spotting that! I now used a much more reliable way to force you to set up the bombs together. Hopefully fixed.

Eureka 1S1W: how did you do it with one gel baby? :-O

could you send me the demo, please?

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

08-01-2024 at 08:57 AM

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KituU
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File: Mot Eureka 1S1W Victory.demo (5.6 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Re: Museum of themes (0)

Hi ! demo

08-01-2024 at 06:25 PM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

KituU wrote:
Hi ! demo

What was that??? That was an US, wow! It never occurred to me you could do that.

Hopefully fixed now.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

08-01-2024 at 06:45 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Ah 2S1E Victory.demo (6.2 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Re: Museum of themes (0)

Sorry, still no goblin

08-02-2024 at 12:48 AM

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Red-XIII
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Re: Museum of themes (0)

Thank you for finding all these US! This was a cool solution, but it was pretty much manipulation based. Hopefully, and finally, fixed!

Also, I modified just a bit Ah! 2S1W, since I felt it was too easy.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

08-02-2024 at 10:57 AM

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KituU
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File: Mot Eureka 1N1E Victory.demo (5.7 KB)
Downloaded 10 times.
License: Public Domain

Re: Museum of themes (0)

Hi!

Eureka 1N1E : very nice ! upload demo

Eureka 1S1W : still same US : if you keep repeating , the briar will eventually reach the roach.

Ah! 2S1E : happy you found a way to reinforce your solution (was going to suggest using oremites ) . I think the puzzle would be more interesting if you restore the Rock Giant ! (At first i tried a lot to place the Giant in lower chamber). Also maybe the decoration that was stripped off can now return, it also adds an element of possibilities to think the solution.
Any way, in my opinion an "Unintended Solution" is not the same as a "Different solution" . US would be broken or trivial.

08-04-2024 at 08:31 PM

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KituU
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File: Mot Ah 2S1W Victory.demo (5 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Re: Museum of themes (0)

Red-XIII wrote:
I modified just a bit Ah! 2S1W, since I felt it was too easy.

Demo, don't think this is the solution ?

08-05-2024 at 01:13 AM

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