RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1982
Registered: 10-23-2003
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I'm currently stuck in the same room Greebo is stuck in. Not only is it really hard, but it's really hard with a time limit. If you have any hints, they will be appreciated.

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geomatrx
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RoboBob3000 wrote:
I'm currently stuck in the same room Greebo is stuck in. Not only is it really hard, but it's really hard with a time limit. If you have any hints, they will be appreciated.

Also, which is 2N2E? I will look whenb I get home then post help.

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RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1982
Registered: 10-23-2003
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Yeah, I probbaly should have said this in my post, but it's one of the tar rooms near the end. It's the one where you enter from the north and in the middle of the room, there is a tar baby generator made from two columns of tar with trapdoors underneath. I could do this room if it weren't for the time limit.

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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SORRY ABOUT THAT! I got really confused as to which rooms you guys were on about. I just got a new pc, and had not installed DROD for all of 2 days (to think i had to installed crappy virus and internet protection and XP updates before this!!!) and been busy at work, so lost track of things.

If you stil need help, i have the answers below...

RoboBob3000 wrote:
Yeah, I probbaly should have said this in my post, but it's one of the tar rooms near the end. It's the one where you enter from the north and in the middle of the room, there is a tar baby generator made from two columns of tar with trapdoors underneath. I could do this room if it weren't for the time limit.

Ah yes, the second tar room. How did you find 1N1E?

RoboBob3000 wrote:
In 2N2E, if you exit to the left after finishing the room, there's no way to go north. Maybe make a green door solution to fix this or make the entrance on the left a trap door.

If you mean there no way back out of the lava area, this is intentional.

Greebo wrote:
Ooooo I'm almost there!

1N 3E is giving me a REAL problem!

go on... gizza clue! lol

I have to say that this is an amazing concept - just goes to show what is capable in drod with a vivid imagination! Hats off!

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:02-17-2005 at 11:13 PM]

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Greebo
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 12-24-2004
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Ah...

As in "slowly slowly catch ye monkey..."

I THINK I know what I need to do - I've been trying since my post (!!! ) It's a case of...



But that brain is a real bugger... lol

Greebo
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 12-24-2004
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You know what? Bugger it! I had so much fun the first time around I'm going to restore from the entrance ans have another go! lol

No, I mean it! It's such a great hold I want to go through it again!

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1982
Registered: 10-23-2003
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Haha, as far as I can tell, slow and steady isn't doing it for me. I'm going about as efficiently as I possibly can and I'm still about 24 moves away from getting it. It sucks that the tar has to grow a notch after you drop the doors. I guess I've just gotta do it faster.

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Greebo
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 12-24-2004
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I Know...

I got it to only one tar baby behind the green door... but you know what they say - a miss is as good as a mile....

So i'm going back to the beginning... see you in a week or so! lol

geomatrx
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RoboBob3000 wrote:
Haha, as far as I can tell, slow and steady isn't doing it for me. I'm going about as efficiently as I possibly can and I'm still about 24 moves away from getting it. It sucks that the tar has to grow a notch after you drop the doors. I guess I've just gotta do it faster.

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:02-18-2005 at 10:41 AM]

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Blood Maggot
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 42
Registered: 06-28-2004
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I don't really like this hold... it's a nice idea, but there is too much backtracking through monster filled rooms. I just wanna kill those brains >=0

geomatrx
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Would it be better if these rooms could be completed?

What do others think about that??

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:02-18-2005 at 11:42 AM]

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Blood Maggot
Level: Delver
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You could release two versions - one is slightly altered to allow for completion.

I think that would satisfy everyone. But then again, don't run a mile just for me.

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1982
Registered: 10-23-2003
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I feel like you found a good balance between completeable rooms and non-completeable ones, although there was a fair amount of rooms that made me groan when I encountered them again. Maybe give it another play-through yourself and see if you feel like there any rooms that just get annoying to you.

In other news, I beat 1n3e. I literally stepped off of the final trapdoor on the 300th move. If that's the optimal solution, then kudos to you for designing such a seemingly simple, yet extremely intricate room. I don't think a single step in my solution was unnecessary. I'd be interested to hear how you completed it.

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RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1982
Registered: 10-23-2003
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I finally finished it. I have to say that I really enjoyed the final tar rooms, and I'm not usually a fan of tar in any form. 1n3e might have been a little bit too difficult when compared to the tar rooms after it, making the climax tar room seem trivial in comparison.

One question, though. Was it intended for us to crack the unknown gate, or is there a hidden code somewhere? I cracked it, because there isn't a trap door system implemented that would make it incredibly time consuming to do so.

Otherwise, fabulous work! This is a very groundbreaking hold, in my opinion. This sets the stage for many holds of this type to be made with the new level traversing features in JtRH.

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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I'll play through it again and see which bits get too annoying

I though in3e was the toughest room, but the 'asthetical' layouts of the final 2 tar rooms i think make up for it

And yes, the unknown gate is to be solved by you (which is why there is no trap door system.

Thanks Robo,
Appreciate your comments and for you testing my hold.

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TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1379
Registered: 02-05-2003
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OK, I'm lost



I'll keep searching, and will probably find it myself..

Edit - Oh, by the way, a suggestion: Since you have big green numbering for which code is available in the room, I would find it extremely helpful to have something similar by each code lock that you can actually see onscreen rather than in a scroll - since I do quite a bit of scrolling through the restore screen when I get lost. I've had to write down the numbers on paper, not too hard, but it would be a nice addition.

Editting again - don't worry, I've found somewhere I haven't been yet I knew there was somewhere I had stored in the back of my memory to go back to..

[Edited by TripleM at Local Time:02-19-2005 at 03:50 AM]

geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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Thats possible to do. I could put in yellow numbers by the doors as a visual to which code you need. I'll test it and see if it looks good.

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bdwing
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 288
Registered: 02-16-2003
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This hold is either the result of genius or the result of insanity, I can't tell which. It is a real, true masterpiece.



Currently I am stuck at room quartonce south, septence east. But I think I figured something out while posting this message.

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
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Thanks bdwing.

I noticed this error too and hopefully fixed it Did you manage to figure out the room you were stuck on?

Note: I have made a few fixes after replaying it myself, and from all your useful comments. This is listed in the first post.

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:02-21-2005 at 04:36 PM]

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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I have posted a new version of my hold for you to try out.

If you are already using an older version, its no big deal to get this one.

Here are the changes made:

- Yellow numbers in rooms relating to yellow gates
- The Entrance: Replaced blue gate with force arrow
- 1N2E: Force arrow added to bottom left re-entry
- 1N3E: Small piece of tar removed (pointless in terms of the rest of the room)
- 7N4E: Added a few more roaches (now 3 lots of 3x3)
- 5S11E: Moved roach trap closer to Room entrances
- 12S13E: Added force arrows near spiders at foot of page
- 13S7E: Removed some spiders and goblins to the right. Made orb strikable from just one entrance
- 13S6E: Room no longer needs to be cleared

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geomatrx
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Another Update:

Here are the changes made to version.99c:

-3N5E: The yellow number changed from "6" to "5".

THIS WILL BE THE FINAL VERSION BEFORE RELEASE TO THE HOLDS FORUM! PLEASE FEEDBACK YOUR THOUGHTS OF THIS HOLD!

THANKS TO YOU ALL!

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Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
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I am trying it again, from the start, and it really is great. I'm only halfway though...

Haven't noticed any real bugs right now, but some comments anyway:

Green room 11: is it intentional that you can solve this room from the east and west entrances?
You might want to have some ending text.

Overall: I still think this is one of the best hold I've played for a long time.

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 08-31-2004
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Thanks again Tim.

I think i am going to add text to the end.

I'll check green room 11 when I get home.

If I recall though, it should be blocked to the EAST with a green door, and you need code 11 from that room any to approach from the East? Will check this though.

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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Tim wrote:
Green room 11: is it intentional that you can solve this room from the east and west entrances?

No not intentional. I've revisited this now so you have to complete it from the West. Thanks Tim.

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:03-16-2005 at 11:46 PM]

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schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
Registered: 03-01-2005
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This hold is absolutely amazing. It looks nice and rewards the player well for reaching goals. There's a nice balance of types of rooms (the relatively easy unconquerable rooms make a nice change of pace), and some rather nice multi-room puzzles. I've been playing through version 99c and refusing to use Restore except to the start of the room, plus that one time I missed a crumbly wall (the one in: )I haven't noticed any real problems with the hold so far, so there's obviously a lot of hard work in this huge project. Thanks geomatrx!

I have found and used codes 1-19, but I'm stuck trying to beat 14S 13E, which seems necessary to access a whole bunch of puzzles (and with any luck, the route to code 20). Can anybody offer me a hint or two there?

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

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schep wrote:
I have found and used codes 1-19, but I'm stuck trying to beat 14S 13E, which seems necessary to access a whole bunch of puzzles (and with any luck, the route to code 20). Can anybody offer me a hint or two there?

Do you mean the room with a brain and four goblins? I'm currently stuck in there as well... so I think you are right...

Another thing, Is 8S10E supposed to be solved from the NW entrance? The right potion seems to be unnecessary...

schep, by the way, all the numbered green rooms are required, so you should not use restore to the start of a path... geomatrx, maybe you can stress this more somewhere in the beginning of the game so that players don't have to restart the hold until the end...

-- Tim

[Edited by Tim at Local Time:03-21-2005 at 11:56 PM: I meant NW.]

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schep
Level: Smitemaster

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Tim wrote:
Another thing, Is 8S10E supposed to be solved from the NW entrance? The right potion seems to be unnecessary...

I think the puzzle part of 8S 10E can only be entered for the first time from the NW, and to get to any other exit it seems like you would need to pass most of the goblins anyway. I don't think it's even possible to get to that second potion from that entrance, is it? I assumed the second mimic potion was to allow the player to return to the NW entrance after exiting to the south (not that anyone should want to). But looking again, I notice that the otherwise useless orb down the path to that potion's west opens the gate to the NW exit. So maybe that potion is a mistake.

schep, by the way, all the numbered green rooms are required, so you should not use restore to the start of a path...

Right, I knew that, and I meant that I wasn't restoring even when it would help, like when I find out I've wandered a long way to a gate to which I don't have the combination yet, or after reaching a scroll in a previously conquered room, or even when I went the wrong way just trying to get somewhere I'd been before. I guess it's a combination of a feeling of not wanting to 'cheat', and not wanting to accidentally confuse myself about what's conquered and unconquering something by mistake. It definitely helps that none of the unconquerable rooms so far are too terribly difficult.

geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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Hey, hope your all still enjoying my hold! thanks for the posts.

Tim wrote:
Another thing, Is 8S10E supposed to be solved from the NW entrance? The right potion seems to be unnecessary...

If you can do this room another way, id be interested to know the solution.

Also, hope you managed to do the brained goblins 4 vs 1 room. Let me know if you still need a hint and i'll see what I can do.

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:03-22-2005 at 10:32 PM]

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Tim
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geomatrx wrote:
Hey, hope your all still enjoying my hold!

Of course, but I think I've already said this too many times now that it sounds stupid.

If you can do this room (8S10E) another way, id be interested to know the solution.

To make it only finishable from the south, you can add an extra goblin somewhere only reachable by the second mimic potion.

Also, hope you managed to do the brained goblins 4 vs 1 room. Let me know if you still need a hint and i'll see what I can do.

Yes, I need a hint. But erm, if the rest of the rooms are this hard, I'm not sure I want to continue

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schep
Level: Smitemaster

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geomatrx wrote:
If you can do this room (8S10E) another way, id be interested to know the solution.

Tim replied:

Click here to view the secret text

×Actually it's very easy. If you stand on the yellow door when it goes up, you can kill any number of goblins (well, except the last one, but finishing off the last one is not that hard

The demo I have uses that same trick. But before that, I also almost solved it somehow retreating to a corner and carefully taking out the goblins one at a time. I had the last one or two under control, but made a stupid move and died. I didn't try very hard to reproduce that once I thought of the trick Tim mentioned.

And yeah, I also still need a hint in dealing with the four goblins without any really good narrow spaces.