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13th Slayer
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icon how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
I dunno!
11-21-2007 at 08:29 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
If you are asking about puzzle levels, there are three.

In very total, there are 8 of them.

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11-21-2007 at 11:49 AM
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Syntax
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
I also believe it was extended with a later version. It now includes Deep Uncturage or something. Sorry for the vagueness...
11-21-2007 at 12:19 PM
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Mattcrampy
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
Under The Library might also be included: I remember some feedback that the game gets a good deal harder at that point, and that it is probably good for the demo to reflect the difficulty level of the game.

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11-21-2007 at 01:56 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (+1)  
Mattcrampy wrote:
Under The Library might also be included: I remember some feedback that the game gets a good deal harder at that point, and that it is probably good for the demo to reflect the difficulty level of the game.
No, we don't include that level in the demo. We do now include through Deep Uncturage and up to the point of entering Under the Library.

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11-22-2007 at 04:58 PM
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13th Slayer
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
Syntax wrote:
I also believe it was extended with a later version. It now includes Deep Uncturage or something. Sorry for the vagueness...
3.1?
11-23-2007 at 08:26 AM
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coppro
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3.0.1
11-24-2007 at 05:36 AM
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Snacko
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
IMO it should also have Under the Library (the next level), that's when the difficulty ramped up to the level it is through the rest of the game.

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11-29-2007 at 09:09 PM
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Mattcrampy
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
I believe this was the reasoning behind one of the arguments to extend the demo - it's a little bait-and-switch that the level after the demo ends is so ferociously harder than the previous one.

I'm almost tempted to say that the demo should extend only a couple of rooms in - Under the Library is fairly linear, and the idea is just to say, okay, this game starts getting really hard here.

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[Last edited by Mattcrampy at 11-30-2007 01:39 AM]
11-30-2007 at 01:36 AM
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Mr. Slice
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
You know what's the worst for me? Under the Library is nearly too hard for me. I've managed to complete all but two rooms. Fortunately, It is said that that is when TCB evens out and puzzles are that hard. So if I can complete Under the Library, then maybe I can complete the rest of TCB. I really want to know what else there is in the story! I find that a good conclusion. Then maybe I can find some peace in my sleep.

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11-30-2007 at 03:31 AM
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Tuttle
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You're not the only person who found Under the Library to be incredibly difficult. Briar is the new goblin in terms of elements I just Don't Get to the point of hating rooms that rely on it[1]. Despite all the instantaneous info that's available through right-clicking, I find it impossible to get enough of a big picture to plan how many walls need cutting etc.

On the bright side, once you make it through Under the Library, briar rarely appears for the rest of the game, and when it does it tends to be less of a focus. I think the difficulty level goes back to being just about right after there as well -- Under the Library always struck me as a bit of a hump in the graph.

[1] It took me years to start to get how to deal with multiple-goblin rooms...
12-02-2007 at 03:19 AM
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Mr. Slice
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (+1)  
[1]---Yeah. I noticed that when a level specializes in an element, that's it for the element and it will no longer be a problem. However, once you nearly finish a level, you become, specialized in that particular element. Once you finish it, a new element comes up so that you have to slowly deal with it before you can specialize in it.


[2]---Worst of all, after some time of specializing in other things, you lose your old specialization and when you have to deal with it, it's been too long so you have to relearn the properties of it. And of course, If the old specialization appears in the earlier part of the level, you will probably not have completely finished with the training of the new element, and you have to deal with the other one.


[3]---So you have to fight both, which is a very bad hassle. But if the old specialization appears in the later levels, it will be fairly easy as you have already specialized in the new element and know a little about the other. Unless the two don't work together, then it will become much harder, as the two elements will then work against you to make things much harder. Or, sometimes it will be much easier.


[4]---I have a good example of both, surprisingly enough. Here is a combination of two bad things that work against you. You may learn ortho tiles in earlier levels, but then you have to fight guards on them! The new element. This combination is actually surprisingly hard. Try it sometime.


[5]---Here is a combination of two good elements. When working with briar, the earlier element, you may find that tarstuff, the new element, is surprisingly easy to work with in that combination. Why? Because the briar will cut into the tarstuff you're supposed to cut to get to the roach that you're supposed to kill. So you can just wait at the entrance until the briar cuts both.


[6]---But there is also when three elements come in. Two old, and one new. It will be hard progressing through the level, especially if all three evilly work in conjunction together to kill you. Here is an example of an evil conjunction. You must kill the guards on ortho tiles to open the green door before the inaccessible briar reaches the pressure plate that closes off the path that has the green door.That is probably the most evil combination of the three that I've ever seen.


[7]---But there are also circumstances where three elements just don't work together. Here is the example. Kill the roaches in the room before the briar traps you from getting to the entrance so you can wait for the briar to clog the serpents escape route so that they kill themselves. That, I've never seen before but could happen.

[8]---Hopefully, you've remembered that these ideas are all free. Use them in your hold however you want to.

[9]---Ok, enough about all that stuff of good and bad things. I'm actually just blabbing on about that doesn't matter in the topic. So I'm going to say that Under the Library is a hard level that includes an evil element. And one more thing.

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Ok. Here, paragraph 1, 2, and 9 are the most important. If you are having trouble with a certain paragraph, the bracketed numbers will help so that you can say which one you are having trouble with.

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[Last edited by Mr. Slice at 12-02-2007 04:04 PM]
12-02-2007 at 06:01 AM
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Briareos
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (+1)  
Mr. Slice wrote:
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But maaan... why did you have to run out of paragraphs right at the start? I gave up on trying to read it after the first three lines... :(

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12-02-2007 at 10:59 AM
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Tim
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Briareos wrote:
But maaan... why did you have to run out of paragraphs right at the start? I gave up on trying to read it after the first three lines... :(
No worries. You didn't missed anything.

I'll mod you up just for trying to read it at all. I'm not even going to try to read it. :(

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12-02-2007 at 12:06 PM
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Mr. Slice
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (0)  
I can help you read it. Read it now and it should be easier to read. Be sure to scroll down and see the rules.


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[Last edited by Mr. Slice at 12-02-2007 11:20 PM]
12-02-2007 at 03:59 PM
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bflatjeff
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icon Re: how many levels are there in demo of TCB? (+1)  
I didn't find Under the Library to be too difficult, apart from the secret rooms. I thought the level ramped up the difficulty gently and evenly. Plus, it's a great introduction to the concept of optimization, for those players who had never thought of the idea before.
I don't have the same opinion of briar as being like goblins, Tuttle. I can usually safely treat briar as a time constraining element that has a general area affect. I find goblins to be actually more troublesome; they run away from you and sneak up from behind. A bit of experimentation usually reveals how briar will work in a room, but there are many more possibilities with goblins, as they react to my moves.

BbJ

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12-04-2007 at 05:36 AM
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Tuttle
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bflatjeff wrote:
I don't have the same opinion of briar as being like goblins, Tuttle. I can usually safely treat briar as a time constraining element that has a general area affect. I find goblins to be actually more troublesome; they run away from you and sneak up from behind. A bit of experimentation usually reveals how briar will work in a room, but there are many more possibilities with goblins, as they react to my moves.
I think that distinction is why I eventually got goblins but still had trouble with briar -- goblins react directly to your moves, and after a while you get a feeling for what is and isn't a dumb thing to do in a particular situation. You get pretty immediate feedback on what you're doing.

Briar, on the other hand, is much more indirect. It reacts to things like how big it already is, and how many pits it's over -- stuff which you can have some control over (bombs, doors, breakable walls, trapdoors) but only well before it matters. And when you're dropping trapdoors and cutting walls, it's hard to work out just how much leeway that will have bought you in a few growths' time.

I get briar as a straight timing mechanism (eg Rasarus Archipelago 2W, Forgotten Ruins 3N2W), but as soon as you get to influence it (Under The Library 1N2W, the easternmost Under The Library secret) I'm lost.

I suspect all this is as much to do with the player as it is to do with the element, anyway -- I get serpents, and rather like them (especially in LarryMurk style rooms), but I know there are people who would disagree with me strongly. :)

[Last edited by Tuttle at 12-04-2007 07:50 AM]
12-04-2007 at 07:49 AM
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