Radiant
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B.J.Earles wrote:
Looks like I need to get in on this hall of fame business. Here is my player file (at least, I'm pretty sure it's my player file).

Also added.

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= Radiant =

Radiant
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I've compiled a Linux version of both SubTerra and SubTerra 2, which is now available on the download page.

I would appreciate to hear people's experiences with this version. It was compiled on Ubuntu, but should run on any PC Linux version (although it may fail on big-endian systems).

Getting music to work requires TiMidity, which is available over apt-get.

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= Radiant =

Connor
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 08-21-2008
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Do you plan on ever making a version of this game for Mac? It looks really cool. I liked Boulder Dash so I have to try it!

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PROGRAMMIN' THE GAMES

MAKIN' THE MONEY (just kidding about that last part)

Radiant
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Connor wrote:
Do you plan on ever making a version of this game for Mac?

This is somewhat hampered by the fact that I don't have a Mac.

On the other hand, the game is known to run under Virtual PC, at least. You may also be able to run the Linux version on Mac Linux.

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= Radiant =

Celtic Minstrel
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 12
Registered: 09-06-2008
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Radiant wrote:
On the other hand, the game is known to run under Virtual PC, at least. You may also be able to run the Linux version on Mac Linux.

I run the game under CrossOver. I don't think it works under Darwine, which is basically the free Mac version of WINE, but I can't remember if I tried it. (If the game uses OpenGL or DirectX, it probably won't work in Darwine, but if it uses SDL, it might.)

I haven't tried running the Linux version, but I doubt it would work (unless you're dual-booting into Linux). You might be able to make a Mac version by simply recompiling the Linux source code on a Mac, but I'm not sure. It depends on stuff. (And obviously that would require having someone you trust who has a Mac to do that recompiling for you.)

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[Last edited by Celtic Minstrel at 01-09-2010 08:45 PM]

Radiant
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Celtic Minstrel wrote:
(If the game uses OpenGL or DirectX, it probably won't work in Darwine, but if it uses SDL, it might.)

Confusingly, the Windows version uses DirectX, whereas the Linux version uses SDL.

You might be able to make a Mac version by simply recompiling the Linux source code on a Mac, but I'm not sure. It depends on stuff.

It would most likely work, except that I have to rework the file IO routines based on endianness.

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= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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That doesn't sound like too much work, being that I assume you'd only have to change a few functions.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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Radiant wrote:
On the other hand, the game is known to run under Virtual PC, at least. You may also be able to run the Linux version on Mac Linux.

It works great in VirtualBox too; I tried it once, using Windows XP as the guest OS.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

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Danjen02 wrote:
That doesn't sound like too much work, being that I assume you'd only have to change a few functions.

The main problem is getting a mac to compile it on. Off-hand I can't think of anyone in my circle of friends who has one.

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= Radiant =

Celtic Minstrel
Level: Roachling
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Radiant wrote:

Celtic Minstrel wrote:You might be able to make a Mac version by simply recompiling the Linux source code on a Mac, but I'm not sure. It depends on stuff.

It would most likely work, except that I have to rework the file IO routines based on endianness.

All newer Macs are the same endianness as Windows machines. Of course, you'd want to support older Macs too, but getting it to run on an Intel Mac would be a good start. And I think there are library functions that make the change transparent (ie you don't need to know whether the Mac is running on a PowerPC or Intel processor).

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[Last edited by Celtic Minstrel at 01-14-2010 07:04 PM]

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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I can't remember if I asked this already (I probably did), but what are the timing mechanics that let Don't Try This at Home! work?

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Danjen02 wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this already (I probably did), but what are the timing mechanics that let Don't Try This at Home! work?

One is that explosions count as "solid" with respect to whether objects can pass them; this means that enemies will turn back when they approach an explosion, and that rocks and rubies can lie on top.

The rest is basically split second work. When a rock rolls off another rock, it goes to the side first, then down; while it is moving to the side, the underlying rock can be pushed to remain underneath it.

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= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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Right, but I don't recall any explosions in that level?

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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Ah, perhaps I'm confusing it with Laws Of Physics.

DTTAH relies on the fact that the moving objects in a level are an ordered list (array) and that new ones are added to the end. So in one situation, within one tick you get #1 moving (which spawns #3), then #2 moving, then #3 being removed because its cloner exit is blocked; in the other you get #1 moving, then #2 (which spawns #3), then #3 coming out of the unblocked cloner. Make sense?

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= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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Ah yes, I believe you were.

And yeah, that does make sense ... still confusing as heck, though.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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Danjen02 wrote:
still confusing as heck, though.

Tell me about it. Don't Try This at Home had me stumped for years before I finally solved it. It's a truly inspired level for being so compact.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

I've always wondered if it was possible to exploit this mechanic in other levels, but more evidently and less complicated on the player's part.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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...probably. But it would be hard to figure out unless you're heavily into speedrunning.

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= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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I found a screenshot of ST1 from one of those generic download sites, dated 2001. It's from the level Ace of Spades, but it has green water, and some kind of switch towards the top... I assume those were early, but later replaced graphics from the game?

Picture

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

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That is correct. Also, several levels refer to "penguins" because the early graphic for the cryobird was in fact a penguin.


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= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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Question:

Do you remember how you coded the objects that shine occasionally (gems, flowstone) - I'm just curious how one would do this.

My reasoning behind it would be to have it randomly create a sprite that disappears when it is done animating (the sparkle, in this case). Each object have an internal, initially randomized counter that checks if enough time has passed to try creating a sparkle again (ie, if counter mod 128 = 0 (every 128 steps), then have a 5% chance of making it).

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

I have a question about the one level in ST1... it's one of the tutorial row levels, and it's the one where you drop the rocks on the skelwings to create doors and keys.

How do you plan a level like that? Even having the knowledge of what the skelwings drop when they die doesn't really help, because you still have to logic it out.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

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There's a hotkey that shows Skelwing contents, does that help?


____________________________
= Radiant =

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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Danjen02 wrote:
I have a question about the one level in ST1... it's one of the tutorial row levels, and it's the one where you drop the rocks on the skelwings to create doors and keys.

How do you plan a level like that? Even having the knowledge of what the skelwings drop when they die doesn't really help, because you still have to logic it out.

Common sense tells you to find out which skewing you need to kill first, and go forwards. Instead, you need to figure out which skelwing you need to kill last, and work backwards. The level then becomes much simpler.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

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[Last edited by The Mystic at 02-01-2011 11:16 PM]

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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No, I... I know that, I did get an Ultimate rank after all.

I was just wondering about the creation of the level; how you would set it up to play through like that

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

Danjen02 wrote:
I did get an Ultimate rank after all.

*quickly checks hall of fame*
Yeah, I guess you did. Shows how much I was paying attention...

I was just wondering about the creation of the level; how you would set it up to play through like that

My guess would be to work forwards and/or backwards to see what does and doesn't work for your level. Like you said earlier, you have to logic it out.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

I've located a copy of Crystal Mine, the original SubTerra fansite and solutions list made by Zeviz, and put up a mirror at http://crystalshard.net/?f=cm_intro

Wow, that was long ago, I think he was my first fan

____________________________
= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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Ooh super cool, it's fun to look over old stuff

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Updated the Hall of Fame. Natnee, congratulations on completing all levels in SubTerra Prime; I'm always impressed when somebody manages that!



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= Radiant =

Celtic Minstrel
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 12
Registered: 09-06-2008
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Celtic Minstrel wrote:
I was recording a solution for a level (Subterra 2), and I reached the exit... and nothing happened. :/ No "Well done", no "Excellent", not even a "Some players died". (Besides which, there's only one player.)

I'm not 100% sure I was speaking of the same level here (probably I was), but I got this issue recently in one of my levels. It turned out there was another player offscreen, and the game hadn't centred on it when the original player reached the exit.


EDIT: On an unrelated note, I just downloaded the 2009 expansion pack and found that some of the hints in the three intro levels (entitled April, June, and September) appear cut off.

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[Last edited by Celtic Minstrel at 06-11-2012 03:08 AM]