Tim
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New Version updated

Any comments are very welcome...

-- Tim

==========

FAQ for New Architects

Many thanks for eytanz, agaricus5, Atch and DiMono for answering the harder questions.


General

(ie. What you need to know before you start building...)

What do I need to make a hold?

What does 'hold' mean?


Will holds made in DROD:AE work the same as in JtRH?


Will holds made in JtRH work the same as in DROD:AE?




Thinking about your first hold

Most of the following information comes from Architect's Toolkits.
Read them first. There's a lot of great stuff in there.


I can't think of what to name my hold!


I can't think of a theme for my hold!


Consider the number of kills required for your room's solution. Are all of them really necessary?


How many rooms/levels should my hold have?


Is the difficulty of the hold important?
Is the story in a hold important?
Does the hold has to look good?


How do I know my hold is fun?




Creating your first hold

How do I use the editor?


How do I rotate the direction of the arrows that I place?


Are there any special tricks in the Editors?


How can I use scripting in JtRH?


Is there a scripting reference for JtRH?




Submitting your first finished hold


My hold is finished! Should I put it on the Holds Board immediately?




Testing your first hold

When can I let my hold tested on the Architecture Board?


How should I test my hold myself?


Do I really have to let my hold tested on the Architecture Board?


Can someone please tell me when can I submit my hold to "HOLDS"? Don't say "it's up to you".




Submitting your first finished hold - Part 2


My hold is 100% finished, and well tested. Can I submit my hold to Holds now?


How do I submit my hold to Holds?


I have submitted my hold to Holds. Why doesn't it shown on the Holds download page?


I found a problem in my hold after I submitted it! What should I do?




* END OF FAQ *

==========

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[Last edited by Tim at 11-21-2005 10:28 PM]

DiMono
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I disagree with "lots of puzzles" being a theme. The theme would come from several similar puzzles of the same type, and you still need to think of ideas for which puzzles to use.

I also disagree with "My hold is finished, should I put it in the Holds section immediately?" In most cases, it is a flagrant mistake to toss the hold up there immediately, as there will undoubtedly be bugs and trivial solutions to be found. That section should be renamed "My hold has been tested in the Architecture forum, should I put it in the Holds section?" and moved lower in the document.

"I found a problem in my hold after I submitted it, what should I do?" You can go to your profile, click on Modify, then click on Holds to allow you to upload a new version of your hold if you find and correct an error. The only restriction is that you cannot add or remove rooms, the layout must remain the same.

"How can I test my hold?" The main menu navigation in JtRH is going to be quite different than that of DROD:AE, so you'll need to revise this.

"How to get lots of rank points?" I don't think this belongs anywhere in such a guide. Designing holds is meant to be for fun, not for a number in a database you'll never see.

"How do I submit my hold to holds?" I believe there will be a way in JtRH to submit holds from within the game itself, so this may need to be revised as well.

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Schik
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DiMono wrote:
"How do I submit my hold to holds?" I believe there will be a way in JtRH to submit holds from within the game itself, so this may need to be revised as well.

No, for JtRH we'll keep the hold submission process the same - it will be on DROD.net only.


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agaricus5
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Tim wrote:
I can't think of a theme for my hold!

If this is your first hold, don't worry about your theme.
I mean, it's not going to be your last, isn't it?

Um?

Actually, it is important to know what you intend to do before you do it. There's no point in just releasing something thrown randomly together just because "it's not going to be your last (hold)". It's pretty important to make sure you know what sort of hold you are building, and how you wish to go about it. Also, there are many people who want their first attempt to be a good one, so planning is indeed important.

Here are some easy themes:

- lots of puzzles
- lots of slashing
- maze
- orb puzzles
- red floors and doors
- one type of monster

Well, I'd also advise looking at it from a room content aspect too. You can think of the sorts of monsters you want to use and build rooms based on such combinations of elements, for example, using Queens and their spawn to block growth of Tar. Variations on an architectural design as a theme can also be something to consider.

Is the number of kills you have to make important for a hold?

The number of kills is - I think - the least important.
According the the DROD:AE help files, if you can make a puzzle with 5 roaches, why use 5000?

Actually, the number of kills you make can be very important indeed.



Of course, your sentence could be better reworded as "Consider the number of kills required for your room's solution. Are all of them really necessary?"

Is the difficulty of the hold important?

...

(me)
which means that although difficulty is important, quality is more important. In terms of difficulty, players will appreciate if the hold's difficulty is well tuned. (I will cover this later.)

Also, interesting puzzles tend to be challenging and thought provoking. By aiming for quality, you are likely to build rooms that contain unusual and difficult puzzles as a positive by-product.

Does the hold has to look good?

Yes, but not as important as the puzzles. DROD is a puzzle game, after all.

On the other hand, a random collection of rooms with no edge or border continuity is visually unappealing. DROD may be a puzzle game, but it is set in a dungeon. A dungeon is a piece of architecture; treat it like a piece of art as well as a collection of puzzles.

Also, we tend to hand rank points out to people who want to put their holds in Architecture first, because although we can hand points out in Holds, we can't give them to the maker of the hold.

Rank points should not be a major incentive to building a hold. They are given out to encourage hold-building, but this doesn't mean you should build a hold purely for the points. You should be focusing on providing puzzles to entertain and interest people with a enjoyable gaming experience. Let that feedback be your reward for a well-built hold.

I found a problem in my hold after I submitted it! What should I do?

Cry.

I agree with DiMono. That's unhelpful, untrue and quite patronising. You can re-submit a hold (if the number of rooms hasn't changed) and update it with a fixed version.

Do I really have to let my hold tested on the Architecture Board?

(quote from Architect's Toolkit #1 by DiMono)
Don't be afraid to put parts of your hold up in the Architecture forum for people to play through. The worst thing that can happen is the players find trivial solutions or room bugs that you didn't notice, and they tell you about it so you can make your hold better. You can always post up another version later, which will be played as well.

However, it's not the only thing you can do. Jdyer's "A Quiet Place" was tested privately, and didn't go to the Architecture board at all before release. If you want to ask for private testing, that's prefectly fine, as long as it is tested properly before release.

Can someone please tell me when can I submit my hold to "HOLDS"? Don't say "it's up to you".

If you want a answer for your hold, just put your hold in Architecture, including this question in the post.

Use your discretion. If you are thinking of release, look at the hold critically. Ask yourself questions like: "Is there anything you're not too happy with? What do you think could be better? What have people being saying about it? Have I addressed these issues properly?". Making a hold as good as it can be is better than rushing to release it.

How to get lots of rank points?

Put an updated version in Architecure, with a post that it has been updated.
Repeat.

Again, DiMono's right. Rank points aren't important at all when it comes to hold building. This sort of statement is just encouraging people to build holds for rank points, as if they are some sort of currency.

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Tim
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Wow. I'm already happy that anybody really read this thing...

Sorry not to reply earlier, but I was so tired that I slept all day...

DiMono wrote:
I disagree with "lots of puzzles" being a theme. The theme would come from several similar puzzles of the same type, and you still need to think of ideas for which puzzles to use.

You're right. I will change it into "puzzles of the same type"

I also disagree with "My hold is finished, should I put it in the Holds section immediately?" In most cases, it is a flagrant mistake to toss the hold up there immediately, as there will undoubtedly be bugs and trivial solutions to be found. That section should be renamed "My hold has been tested in the Architecture forum, should I put it in the Holds section?" and moved lower in the document.

I'm not really sure I understand you. There's already a second similiar question somewhere lower in the document. Can you please explain exactly what I should do with both texts?

"I found a problem in my hold after I submitted it, what should I do?" You can go to your profile, click on Modify, then click on Holds to allow you to upload a new version of your hold if you find and correct an error. The only restriction is that you cannot add or remove rooms, the layout must remain the same.

Changed.

"How can I test my hold?" The main menu navigation in JtRH is going to be quite different than that of DROD:AE, so you'll need to revise this.

This document is written from the DROD:AE perspective. I can only revise it when JtRH is released or someone tell me what to revise into. I simply don't know anything about JtRH.

"How to get lots of rank points?" I don't think this belongs anywhere in such a guide. Designing holds is meant to be for fun, not for a number in a database you'll never see.

Checked. I had decided to remove it, but I forgot.

agaricus5 wrote:

Tim wrote:
I can't think of a theme for my hold!

If this is your first hold, don't worry about your theme.
I mean, it's not going to be your last, isn't it?

Um?

Actually, it is important to know what you intend to do before you do it. There's no point in just releasing something thrown randomly together just because "it's not going to be your last (hold)". It's pretty important to make sure you know what sort of hold you are building, and how you wish to go about it. Also, there are many people who want their first attempt to be a good one, so planning is indeed important.

You're right that people who want their first attempt to be a good one will want to plan it first. However, from my experience, I find that it's not so important to think very long about a theme first. I find that the themes actually automatically arrive when I made some rooms first, and then find some common tricks in them. (And saving the non fitting ones for later holds.) Yes, I think I will change it into something like that.

Here are some easy themes:
...

Well, I'd also advise looking at it from a room content aspect too. You can think of the sorts of monsters you want to use and build rooms based on such combinations of elements, for example, using Queens and their spawn to block growth of Tar. Variations on an architectural design as a theme can also be something to consider.

Added.

Is the number of kills you have to make important for a hold?

The number of kills is - I think - the least important.
According the the DROD:AE help files, if you can make a puzzle with 5 roaches, why use 5000?

Actually, the number of kills you make can be very important indeed.

Click here to view the secret text

×In Bavato's Dungeon L9 1N 2E, not killing a certain number of monsters prematurely is vital for the solution.

Of course, your sentence could be better reworded as "Consider the number of kills required for your room's solution. Are all of them really necessary?"

Thanks. Changed. I'm glad someone with more experience in English helps me out in this

Is the difficulty of the hold important?

...

(me)
which means that although difficulty is important, quality is more important. In terms of difficulty, players will appreciate if the hold's difficulty is well tuned. (I will cover this later.)

Also, interesting puzzles tend to be challenging and thought provoking. By aiming for quality, you are likely to build rooms that contain unusual and difficult puzzles as a positive by-product.

Added.

Does the hold has to look good?

Yes, but not as important as the puzzles. DROD is a puzzle game, after all.

On the other hand, a random collection of rooms with no edge or border continuity is visually unappealing. DROD may be a puzzle game, but it is set in a dungeon. A dungeon is a piece of architecture; treat it like a piece of art as well as a collection of puzzles.

Added.

Also, we tend to hand rank points out to people who want to put their holds in Architecture first, because although we can hand points out in Holds, we can't give them to the maker of the hold.

Rank points should not be a major incentive to building a hold. They are given out to encourage hold-building, but this doesn't mean you should build a hold purely for the points. You should be focusing on providing puzzles to entertain and interest people with a enjoyable gaming experience. Let that feedback be your reward for a well-built hold.

Added.

Do I really have to let my hold tested on the Architecture Board?

(quote from Architect's Toolkit #1 by DiMono)
Don't be afraid to put parts of your hold up in the Architecture forum for people to play through. The worst thing that can happen is the players find trivial solutions or room bugs that you didn't notice, and they tell you about it so you can make your hold better. You can always post up another version later, which will be played as well.

However, it's not the only thing you can do. Jdyer's "A Quiet Place" was tested privately, and didn't go to the Architecture board at all before release. If you want to ask for private testing, that's prefectly fine, as long as it is tested properly before release.

Added. I did want to write this, but I couldn't find the right words...

Can someone please tell me when can I submit my hold to "HOLDS"? Don't say "it's up to you".

If you want a answer for your hold, just put your hold in Architecture, including this question in the post.

Use your discretion. If you are thinking of release, look at the hold critically. Ask yourself questions like: "Is there anything you're not too happy with? What do you think could be better? What have people being saying about it? Have I addressed these issues properly?". Making a hold as good as it can be is better than rushing to release it.

Added. Although I don't understand what "discretion" should do in this context. (My English is that bad...)

Thanks a lot.

You can find the new version in the first post.

-- Tim

[Edited by Tim at Local Time:02-06-2005 at 02:16 PM]

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DiMono
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discretion -> best judgment

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Tim
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Updated version, including some new answers for JtRH.

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agaricus5
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Tim wrote:
Hopefully there will be a list soon for JtRH, but for now, the best trick you should know is that there is a very nice undo feature while testing the hold in the Editor mode.

It's ridiculously nifty. You can undo multiple times. In fact, you can undo even right back to the start of the room if you so wish, which is invaluable for testing specific rooms to whick you suspect there is a solution, but can't find it.

Also, you can click on the eyes in the editor, which sends out lines of sight from them, allowing you to see what they're looking at.

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Oneiromancer
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agaricus5 wrote:
Also, you can click on the eyes in the editor, which sends out lines of sight from them, allowing you to see what they're looking at.

This should work in-game as well...

Game on,

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Stefan
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Oneiromancer wrote:

agaricus5 wrote:
Also, you can click on the eyes in the editor, which sends out lines of sight from them, allowing you to see what they're looking at.

This should work in-game as well...

Yes, but in the editor, you see where all eyes look when you click on one of them.

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Oneiromancer
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Ah, I didn't realize that...I haven't made any rooms with eyes in JtRH yet.

Game on,

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agaricus5
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Oneiromancer wrote:

agaricus5 wrote:
Also, you can click on the eyes in the editor, which sends out lines of sight from them, allowing you to see what they're looking at.

This should work in-game as well...

Game on,

Sorry; I should have been more clear.

Clicking on one eye in the game will show you what that eye is looking at. Clicking on an eye in the editor shows you what all of the eyes are seeing. It can get a bit confusing in eye-filled rooms, but it's nevertheless a very useful tool.

Edit: Stefan beat me to it...

[Edited by agaricus5 at Local Time:04-04-2005 at 11:42 PM]

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Tim
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New Version. (see first post)

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[Last edited by Tim at 11-21-2005 10:29 PM]

Jeff_Ray...
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I have a question:

If putting a hold on Architecture board, it means people will already see what awaits them when it will be published... how do i prevent this in any other way than private testing?

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eytanz
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I have a question:

If putting a hold on Architecture board, it means people will already see what awaits them when it will be published... how do i prevent this in any other way than private testing?

You don't. Putting a hold on architecture is public testing. It's advantage over private testing is that you get a much larger tester base, which means you need to rely less on each specific tester.

That said, as long as you don't give anyone edit rights to the hold, and as long as you don't plan to submit the hold to Smitemasters Selection (which you can't do anyway because you don't have an existing hold that scored 8 or more), then the experience of players in the architecture forum is identical to that of the people who'll get it in the holds forum, except that A - they can't get highscores right away (they'll have to wait until the hold makes the holds forum and then upload), and B - they are willing to take the risk of bugs. In other words, it's the same as just publishing the hold earlier, plus you get the benefits of testers. I can see situations where you wouldn't want this (again, SS holds, or maybe if you want to make a hold tied to a specific holiday so the release date is important, etc.), but for 99% of the holds, I can't see why you'd care.

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Tim
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
If putting a hold on Architecture board, it means people will already see what awaits them when it will be published... how do i prevent this in any other way than private testing?

You are right, putting a hold on Architecture means people will see what awaits them. But, private testing also means people will see what awaits them, but with only fewer people.

I have always used public testing and I plan to keep on doing that. I get more (positive) replies than just asking people, and more importantly, I get faster answers from people. That is much better for me, because I can't stand waiting for a finished hold to be published onto Holds. (Yes, I know I'm very impatient.) Besides, I don't want to waste my time thinking about that question; I'd rather want to use that time to make better rooms.

Good question.

(Although, I must say, nowadays people are asking me when they can test my next hold... And I can only say that, well, I never intended to make more than one hold... And now there are 5 of those small holds on Holds! And, if I ever finish a new hold, it would be on Architecture. (I'm not good enough to make a large hold for the Smitemaster Selection anyway, even if my first hold did got an 8.) )

-- Tim

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[Last edited by Tim at 11-23-2005 12:26 AM : spelling]

larrymurk
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5?

Simplicity, City of Queens, Penthouse and ? and ?

Tim
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larrymurk wrote:
5?

Simplicity, City of Queens, Penthouse and ? and ?

The other two are hidden in the compilation holds. In "Unfortunate Architect Compilation" and "A Collection of Constant Room Templates". (They have more emphasis on slashing and slaying, and less puzzling.)

-- Tim

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[Last edited by Tim at 11-23-2005 01:13 AM]

larrymurk
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Good point, I didn't think of those tricky contest compilation thingies