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Xindaris
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Hello, and welcome to, "Xindaris made another hold he wants tested, and this one is sort of middling to big too!"

The hold is called These Metallic Gears of Time, a reference to its plot having to do with temporal shenanigans and also a Metal Gear reference since it's an entire hold all about stealth (the "monsters don't even move" scripted kind). It has six actual puzzle levels (+an "intro cutscene" level and a postmastery with just two scrapped rooms in it), and you play as an unarmed citizen character making use of preplaced mimics for most of it. There's also a "custom element" that's really just that thing Beethro could do at the very end of TSS but in a slightly different flavor. I feel there are some good to great puzzles here (at least relatively speaking among those I've made), so it'd be a shame not to at least try to push it out the door toward completion. So...

What needs to be done to finish the hold (the necessary):
-Testing, lots of testing, every room. As usual, I'm the only person who's even seen what's in this hold ever before. So I need to know what's good, what's bad, what's broken, where checkpoints were forgotten or need to be added, and so on.

-Minor scripting/graphical changes, mostly on me. The way the final level handles "character swapping" uses a character called "Beethro" that looks like a guard instead because actual "Beethro" character aggros monsters, and that's no good here. I'm going to have to ask permission to use screenshotted Beethro sprite trickery, I think. Aside from that, if you notice some incorrect or offputting grammar in the script, or think of something which logically "should" happen cosmetically but doesn't, please let me know.

-Also, that thing with character role swapping and temporal projections needs to stay working the way it is (or close enough anyway) in order in order for the Final Puzzle of the last level to make any narrative sense at all. But that's more of a thing that needs to not happen? I just think it's wisest to let people know about that bit ahead of time.

What I wish I could do before it's done (the dream):
-Voice acting? The hold has lots of chatter, and it'd be nice to have someone saying it all. I'm planning to handle the main voice in the intro texts myself, but the main character (who features in the very last of those) is a female Negotiator, so I feel disqualified to handle that particular role. Maybe if anyone is interested they could record a few of her lines in the first level and post them here for me to go through?

If "full" voice acting started to happen, there are also some more incidental roles like the guy in the final room and a couple of stalwarts and guards that could use actors who aren't me so the entire hold doesn't sound like me talking to myself. Also Beethro is there in the final level, so a reasonable imitator of him would be needed at that point.

This part is just me dreaming though, it obviously doesn't have to happen to have a successful/complete hold.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-09-2019 05:21 PM]
04-21-2019 at 11:22 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: These Metallic Gears of Time (+1)  
Demos for the first puzzle level attached, except 1S1E because LOL nope.

A few thoughts:

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04-22-2019 at 03:09 AM
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Kaelyn
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icon Re: These Metallic Gears of Time (+2)  
I just finished the first level, and wow. It's really good!

Budkin Way:
Entrance: I assume this takes place post-Turning? If so, how can both Tueno and New Tueno exist? Or is this earlier in the timeline, and New Tueno is some colonization effort?

1N: This was hilarous!

Facility Depths:
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Other notes:
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I really like most of the puzzles so far, and the story feels like it's shaping up to something big and cool. I'll keep playing through your hold later. Thanks for posting! :)
04-22-2019 at 04:43 AM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: These Metallic Gears of Time (+1)  
quote:
Kaelyn wrote: Budkin Way:
Entrance: I assume this takes place post-Turning? If so, how can both Tueno and New Tueno exist? Or is this earlier in the timeline, and New Tueno is some colonization effort?


It's late so I'm going to delay responding to almost everything. But I thought perhaps I could at least mention: This is intended to take place post-Grand Event. The joke is supposed to be that the signposts disagree on what's to the east because everyone else calls the country "New Tueno" but they themselves insist they're "Just Plain Tueno". I think it just struck me as a very "Tuenan" thing to do.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-22-2019 05:10 AM]
04-22-2019 at 05:09 AM
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Xindaris
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Okay, now let me try actually responding to all the things that were said. First of all, thank you for taking a look and posting feedback in the first place! As well as for the demos, Nuntar. Secondly, more specific responses.

Nuntar:
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Kaelyn:

(Obviously what I said in the previous post, plus...)

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-22-2019 10:28 PM]
04-22-2019 at 10:27 PM
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Aquator
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File: These Metallic Gears of Time.demo (8.7 KB)
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I haven't had the time to play through all of the levels yet but I'll just post my demos so far because I am pretty sure I didn't do some of the rooms as intended. Check out Clockwork Basement 1N1W, 1N1E and 2N1E in particular.

When I've had some time to play through the rest of the hold I'll try my best to write up some proper comments on individual rooms. :)

[Last edited by Aquator at 04-23-2019 12:43 PM]
04-23-2019 at 12:40 PM
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Xindaris
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Yep, Aquator broke my rooms, as is to be expected XD
You even managed to break FD 2S2W while apparently only using one ww to do it, I think? Anyway uh...

UPDATE:
-FD 2S2W now only has one wraithwing to cut down on room repetitiveness and at least remove some unintended solutions. (Original FD 2S2W moved to WS temporarily, still considering making a gentryii-less version of it a secret room.)
-FD 1S1W mimic area checkpoints removed.
-CB 1N1W, 1N1E, and 2N1E modified to hopefully prevent the breaks seen in the previous post from happening.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-23-2019 08:52 PM]
04-23-2019 at 08:45 PM
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Xindaris
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Minor Update:
-Changed Cold Storage 1W to have rock golems instead of evil eyes as its "target monsters". I doubt it was possible to succeed by just pushing fluffs into the north "monster traps" before, but I think it's better if it's clear the player shouldn't even try that method.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-25-2019 01:20 AM]
04-25-2019 at 01:19 AM
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KituU
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File: These Metallic Gears of Time.demo (13.5 KB)
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Hi
maybe eliminate blue doors for testing ? i'm stuck at Facility Entryway 1N1W and can not proceed.
Demos file

Comments:

I like the theme player disarmed using different resources.

Facility Depths: has some fun , cool rooms
1S2W : liked it very much
2S : did not liked this one. is too simple , not interesting
1S1E : very challenging ! a bit painfull to solve, but interesting .

Clockwork Basement : nice puzzles. Liked it
I do not know if the posibility to place time token where you want makes a difference in these puzzles
1N1W : did not use the chained Gentryii.
3N : maybe add more checkpoint ?
4N1E : still working on it, too challenging

Facility Entryway : so far personally liked this level the least
3N : maybe i'm missing something. Just kill the eye? thought there might be a puzzle to be able to go to the sides of the room, but there is nothing?
1N1W : i hate this one. Stalwarts move after babies cut from mud. that is odd, and movement order seems relevant in this room.


[Last edited by KituU at 04-28-2019 03:42 AM]
04-28-2019 at 03:38 AM
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Xindaris
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Thanks for taking a look, KituU; you found some new leaks including one that should've been blindingly obvious. I'll think about making gaps in the blue doors, maybe, although I do want testing to get the "authentic experience" that a real player would later have, including needing to finish each level before going to the next.

A few more specific responses:
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UPDATE:
-Leak fixes in CB 1N1W (AGAIN), FE 3N, FE 1N1E.
-Added checkpoints in CB 3N

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-28-2019 04:46 AM]
04-28-2019 at 04:43 AM
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KituU
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File: TMGoT Clockwork Basement 1N1W Victory.demo (2.4 KB)
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Clockwork Basement 1N1W

did the updated room, did not use the hour glass time clone
04-28-2019 at 09:33 PM
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Xindaris
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You know, that's not "precisely" the solution I found to the room's main problem, but it does engage with the puzzle I really wanted the room to be. I can be happy with that, maybe even put in a challenge for not taking the hourglass.

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04-28-2019 at 11:42 PM
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bbb
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All notes are on the original version.

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04-29-2019 at 05:14 PM
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Xindaris
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Thanks for taking a look, bbb! As usual, of course, I'd probably need to see your demos to know for sure what you broke/didn't, how/how to fix, and whether it's already been fixed by now. I'll try and respond more specifically to your comments.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-29-2019 10:05 PM]
04-29-2019 at 09:57 PM
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KituU
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finished Cold Storage

I loved loved Main Laboratories !! great puzzles, a joy !

Coments
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04-30-2019 at 12:27 AM
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Xindaris
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Okay, now I see where the leak is in ML 2S1E. Thanks KituU!

UPDATE:
-Splattered checkpoints all over the rooms that were missing them in ML and TS. Please let me know whether these placements are good or terrible (as well as the old ones where I didn't forget to put them.
-Leak fix in ML 2S1E: No putting tokens after the hot tiles allowed.
-Another leak fix to FE 3N, which I think should finally require something resembling what I intended.

Other responses:
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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-30-2019 05:03 PM]
04-30-2019 at 04:59 PM
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Xindaris
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UPDATE:
Trying out a new version of Facility Entryway 2N, with the following modifications:
-Entry from the east blocks clearing the room (entering that way has always been kind of a cheat in my book).
-There are powder kegs on firetraps hooked up to some new cracked orbs, which the Negotiator also comments on when she enters the room from the south. This should make solving the room more predictable.
-To counterbalance the easier difficulty, more guards have been added.

The old FE 2N (but with the button preventing clearing it from the east still added) is now in postmastery, possibly just temporarily.

I also copied CS 3S1W to a room just south of itself and made the leak fix (gentryii must be on the plates, not briar) that I'm considering there. Still not sure if this will be the new official version of that room or a secret room.

Please let me know what you think of the new version of the room!

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-01-2019 05:52 PM]
05-01-2019 at 05:51 PM
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KituU
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Hi, could not find the access to room CS 3S1W
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[Last edited by KituU at 05-02-2019 12:44 AM]
05-01-2019 at 08:43 PM
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Xindaris
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Ah, sorry,

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05-02-2019 at 12:51 AM
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KituU
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Done !
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05-04-2019 at 01:34 AM
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disoriented
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A sample of the first three lines, and a sample of the same audio with a noise filter applied.

Unfortunately I don't have a high-quality mike handy.

How much dialogue would there be in total, do you know?

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05-04-2019 at 07:16 PM
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Xindaris
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Thanks, KituU! Your demos pointed out a few derps on my part, which I address in the newest Update:
-The cutscene in TS Entrance had been "dummied out" for room editing/testing purposes, but it should really be in place by now. Said cutscene points out explicitly to the player that Beethro needs to maintain stealth until the level is clear, and why; it also contains some important Plot.
-Somehow the "fake Beethro" appearance for character swapping purposes had changed to some kind of citizen instead of the sworded "Beethro in Disguise" as it was supposed to be set to. This is fixed now.
-Challenge script in TS 1N made the amateur mistake of awarding if the room was just plain clear, which is definitely not what I wanted.
-Beethro isn't supposed to be able to enter TS 2S for Plot purposes, but I kinda forgot that I gave the player a stick in 1S. Soo...I'm adding another "weird time paradox beethro" in the way to hopefully prevent the player from just pushing the original one out of the way.

Apart from that, your solution to 2W isn't quite what I had in mind..timeclones aren't supposed to be allowed sticks in that room. But I think your solution's alright, really clever, so I don't see a great reason to mess with it unless someone uses the same "leak" to completely trivialize the room. I'm also not entirely sure how to enforce that upper hallway with the stick in it as a "Beethro only, no timeclones" zone any more than I already have anyway.


disoriented, I'm in a poor environment to listen to your voice samples right this minute. Are they Beethro? Beethro doesn't have terribly many lines in this hold, just the entrance, 1S1W, and 1S of Temporal Summit. I intended to record Silas's lines (that is, the intro text of all the levels) myself. There's a bunch of various incidental character lines scattered all over the place, but I wouldn't want to put all that on one person anyway.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-05-2019 03:15 AM]
05-05-2019 at 03:13 AM
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disoriented
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The audio samples are for the part of the Negotiator. How much total dialogue do you foresee for that role?

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05-05-2019 at 05:28 PM
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KituU
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updated version:

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05-05-2019 at 07:34 PM
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Xindaris
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KituU:
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disoriented:
Okay, I had a chance to listen to the voice samples now. They sound pretty good! The Negotiatior probably has the most lines in the hold as individual parts go, since she's the "main character" and all. I haven't really counted them or taken the idea of voice acting quite seriously enough to make a transcript yet, which I probably should do, but I know she has at least one or two lines in every level--and several in the first one anyway. It may be too big an ask.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-05-2019 08:49 PM]
05-05-2019 at 08:49 PM
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KituU
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Comment
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05-06-2019 at 01:08 AM
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Xindaris
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Don't get me wrong--I agree with you about a room getting a life of its own. I'm just trying to describe my enthusiasm for the original solution separately from the not-originally-intended one you found. At this point (unless someone reveals a way to use the stick to absolutely trivialize the room) I don't really intend to force the issue in the actual room itself.
I know exactly how I can detect it for a challenge, which is maybe what I'll do. Or maybe Chaco knows a better way to keep the timeclones out of the stick zone, in which case it could be a secret room.

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05-06-2019 at 02:05 AM
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Xindaris
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UPDATE:
-While going through the hold to make the script, I realized that I had already put in an entrance to postmastery a long time ago! It's in Clockwork Basement Entrance, the stairs it looks like you're not able to use when you first get there. Derp. So, I removed Facility Depths 2W and the passage leading to it.
-Also added the extra "temporal statue" to TS 1S as outlined in previous couple of posts
-Fixed dialogue in 2N1W repeating itself every time the player re-enters the room, after noticing that would happen while making transcript.

On that note, I have also attached the hold's transcript to this post! It should give anyone interested an idea of how much work there is to do. The only thing I'm thinking of adding is what KituU suggested earlier, a stalwart complaining and/or panicking if a fluff gets too close to him or whatever. The intro texts except for TS and WS (the postmastery level) are entirely Silas's lines, which I intend to handle myself. I might also do Veritas's voice and/or a couple of the incidental guards or whatever.
I was thinking I might rewrite TS's intro text if nobody was interested in voicing N, so that all the intros would be fully voiced except for maybe WS. We'll see.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-09-2019 05:22 PM]
05-06-2019 at 03:36 AM
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KituU
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here is a demo for TS 2W (temporals with swords only)

also, Kaelyn was who suggested dialogue for when a puff gets close to the stalwarts
05-06-2019 at 06:35 PM
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Xindaris
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My mistake, I could've looked it up but I was typing that from vague memory alone. For some reason DROD says that demo is for a hold or level I don't have, weird.

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05-06-2019 at 07:21 PM
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