Resert On
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 37
Registered: 05-02-2017
IP: Logged

How to reproduce (water skipper can kill player role puff) :
1. Set 'Player Role Puff'
2. Add Waters (deep water or shallow water is okay)
3. Add Water Skippers on the Water
4. Set Player's stealth off (you can do this by power token, kill a monster, etc)
5. Move player to near water skipper

How to reproduce (seep can kill player role puff) :
1. Set 'Player Role Puff'
2. Add Walls
3. Add Seeps on the Wall
4. Set Player's stealth off (you can do this by power token, kill a monster, etc)
5. Move player to near Seep

How to reproduce (snakes can kill player role puff) :
1. Set 'Player Role Puff'
2. Add Snake (any type)
3. Set Player's stealth off (you can do this by power token, kill a monster, etc)
4. Move player to near water skipper

Aren't this a bug? If not, I will make a puzzle from this.

____________________________
Stuffs:

---

[Last edited by Resert On at 07-13-2017 03:20 AM]

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2584
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

This is not specific to puffs; these properties have long applied to every "immune to attacks" player role.

So whether it was originally intended or not, it's staying in at this point.

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2584
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

Okay, so stuff is changing that can potentially break demos and apparently this is on Needs to be Investigated.

As I said in my previous post: The above effects apply to all player roles that are immune to bodykills.

I believe the best way to handle this would be to implement this feature request, allowing for more control over player properties: http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=44767

If this were implemented, then we could either leave the default behavior as it is, or change the default behavior and then add scripts using Set Player Behavior to relevant rooms in older holds to simulate the old vulnerabilities.

So I would recommend leaving this alone until 5.2.

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3776
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

I think one thing I am confused by is why should Puff player be safe from monsters? Regular puffs happily explode when interacting with anything in the list?

____________________________
My website

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2584
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

Good question. I suspect the actual intention is to make it immune to weapon attacks, and I would guess that the player role code is not currently set up to allow for a distinction in that regard.

I think Outings With A Delver might be the only hold to use player role puff, and it's only a puzzle in one room.

As it turns out, the immunity is not relevant to that room, though the puzzle involves its vulnerability to waterskippers. So if the bodykill vulnerability were removed, it would not break that room.

I wasn't focused on puffs specifically because the issues mentioned apply to all player roles that are immune to bodykills.

---

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 10-15-2020 08:29 PM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3776
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

I had to replicate this on my own to understand. So the problem is that some monsters can't kill Puff player (eg roaches) and some can (eg. waterskippers, seep, snakes), while it should be consistent that either every one of them can do it or none can.

The reason it happens for those monsters is because they have their own custom code for tracking if a target can be attacked - and it doesn't have the check for ImmuneToBodyAttacks().

Given how uncommon player roles are in architecture, are you sure it would break existing rooms? If so, it would be cool if we could add Player Behaviors to 5.2, and then we could both fix this and update old holds' scripting to be consistent with the old behavior, while fixing it for the future.

____________________________
My website

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2584
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

It definitely would.

Just off the top of my head, Flight of the Fegundo has a room with seep where not being killed by them is the main challenge, and Choose Your Adventure uses a particularly weird interaction where snakes will not kill a wubba player role if the snake is moving but not hostile to you.

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3776
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

Delaying for 5.2 then

____________________________
My website