Announcement: Why not try our official idea generator for inspiration when making puzzles?


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : King Azb's Arena Development Thread (Haven't made a hold in a long time...)
1
Page 2 of 2
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Insoluble
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1123
Registered: 09-04-2014
IP: Logged

File: King Azbs Arena.demo (37.4 KB)
Downloaded 1 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: King Azb's Arena Development Thread (0)  
For some reason the hold does not have the same hold ID as the version I had previously downloaded. It downloaded as a completely different hold. If you have multiple copies please try to make sure that you are uploading the same hold so that the testers do not lose all their progress.

I replayed through the levels I had played through before. I don't have much to add to the comments I had before. I will mention that the timer in Level 1.3 The hunt: 1N was a bit too tight to be enjoyable.

Round 2.1 Burly Brawl This level was pretty enjoyable on the whole. The difficulty level was a bit uneven with some rooms feeling super easy and others being very tight solution requirements. 2N1W verges on feeling like a magical move sequence and could stand to be toned down a bit.

Round 2.2 Fancy Footwork I like the mechanic of this level. I feel like it could actually be used for some interesting linchpin puzzles, but that wouldn't really fit in with the idea of this hold I suppose. It did feel a bit on the easy side.

Round 2.3 The Maze of Death This was my favorite of the new levels. The mechanics make for some interesting and fun rooms. That being said, quite a few of the rooms felt a little bit too similar. I wonder if some more differences between some of the rooms could be added in. The tunnels in 2N is very difficult to see. I wasn't sure how I was supposed to enter at first. It would be nice to have them not covered by the power token and speed potion.

2.4 Infested I had to stop playing here. The rooms on this level are just way too tedious. I'll try to come back and finish this off at some point, but I hope you'll consider replacing these or at least making them less of a slog.

____________________________
Links to neat forum tools that I always have trouble finding:
Click here to view the secret text

08-12-2017 at 07:26 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 169
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: King Azb's Arena Development Thread (0)  
As the hold is not officially published yet, please note I added a warp zone to the south in the First Level. This addresses A: having to replay old levels to get the new ones and B: quitting out of frustration due to a single level (in this case, Round 2.4), as you can just skip the levels you don't want to even try in favor of levels you want to try (note that there is still Round 2.5 to 3.5 uploaded).

Also, was 2.4 really that much of a slog? It might be just due to m y fighting abilities, but I found it not much different than other "spam" levels I made such as 1.4 and 2.2.

I appreciate the feedback! Don't give up... there's going to be much more to explore.

If it's any assurance, a handful of levels in Round 3 go back on the monster spamming in favor of things such as "quicksand" or extremely tight timers. Each round is different and thus some (like 2.4, 2.2, and 1.4) will intentionally spam monsters (it wouldn't be an arena otherwise) and others will have few monsters but demand tactical strategy (such as 1.1 or 2.3).

____________________________
Come on down, and contribute a level to Advanced Concepts for TSS!

[Last edited by azb at 08-12-2017 11:29 AM]
08-12-2017 at 11:09 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Insoluble
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1123
Registered: 09-04-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: King Azb's Arena Development Thread (0)  
I saw the level warp and very much appreciate it. I just like to have a full set of demos for things, I suppose it's not a big deal though.

And I didn't mean to give the wrong impression, I fully intend to test out other levels! I just may be skipping 2.4 for the moment. I'm not sure why but it definitely did feel like the rooms were much longer and more exacting that the previous levels. It may be that I hit some of the more difficult rooms in the level early on, I didn't even fully explore it. It may also be that I was getting tired as I had been playing for a couple of hours at that point! I may also just not be as skilled with large brained roach hordes in small quarters.

Either way, I'll probably move on with 2.5 tonight and press on from there. I'll also mention that I'm having a fun time with this on the whole, so thanks for working on it.

____________________________
Links to neat forum tools that I always have trouble finding:
Click here to view the secret text

08-12-2017 at 03:03 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 169
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: King Azb's Arena Development Thread (0)  
Thank you for clarifying. It would have been a shame if a single level changed your opinion of the hold and made you think the hold was worthless when the one level was entirely bypassable.

I decided not to revise 2.4 for now, but if there is a large number of people that find it unpopular, I will ask for suggestions for replacements while still keeping the theme of "roach queen survival."

Also, I've read about mentions of magic sequences as early as Round 1.1, but I would counter those with the fact that monster mechanics are entirely knowable with the right resources (Advanced Concepts holds, Mechanics of Monster Movement article, etc.) so it is not, in reality, a guessing game if you slow down to break the movement down.

For most rooms, though, I have tried to make sure this type of knowledge is unnecessary but just basic fighting skills are required (how to use terrain or your sword to block enemies, back slashing techniques, etc.)

____________________________
Come on down, and contribute a level to Advanced Concepts for TSS!
08-12-2017 at 03:38 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Insoluble
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1123
Registered: 09-04-2014
IP: Logged

File: King Azbs Arena.demo (56.3 KB)
Downloaded 1 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: King Azb's Arena Development Thread (0)  
Finished most of 2.4 Infested. I did skip the central room. It turns out it was a matter of getting blocked by the most exacting room early on while most of the level was very reasonable. I enjoyed the rooms that let you carve out your playing area in crumbly walls. These rooms added an extra layer of strategy that lets the player make the execution much more reasonable just by setting the room up properly. The rooms that felt really tedious to execute for me were 1W and 1N1W. I think the rest of the level seemed much more enjoyable, especially the three rooms in the north. But those two rooms, 1N1W in particular, felt very long and repetitive. I know my demos for them are not the most efficient, but since you are essentially just plowing through roaches it's not really the most interesting thing to try to optimize. I guess rooms like this are just not my thing, others may disagree and enjoy them though.

Round 2.5 Stronghold I liked this level a lot. Especially the rooms that required me to come up with a repeatable pattern that would keep the outer area clear. Some rooms didn't really require that (the entrance for instance), but were still okay rooms. A few of the generator rooms could be done using basically the same pattern to keep clearing monsters until the doors opened, but that's probably fine since the rooms differed in other ways.

Round 3.1 Burlier Brawl Speed potion combat definitely has a different feel to it so this was an interesting variation on the previous golem level. The rooms did tend to feel very similar to each other after a while, but were still enjoyable. 2N1E is the standout room here and was refreshingly different. If you want to add more variety to this level it might be interesting to try doing a room with an invisibility potion instead of a speed potion.

Round 3.2 Blunderdome Difficulty level here was very mixed. The 20 second timer seemed very generous for easily predictable monsters like roaches. For the room with 6 wrathwings (effectively not predictable) I had to spend a much longer time brute forcing a solution.

I started Round 3.3 Cold War, but haven't finished yet. I'll try to come back to this soon since I'm close to the end of what you have so far developed. I'm still very much enjoying it save for a few rooms.

quote:
azb wrote: Also, I've read about mentions of magic sequences as early as Round 1.1, but I would counter those with the fact that monster mechanics are entirely knowable with the right resources (Advanced Concepts holds, Mechanics of Monster Movement article, etc.) so it is not, in reality, a guessing game if you slow down to break the movement down.

You can play through Advanced Concepts, read through multiple posts (the Mechanics of Monster Movement article is super basic and doesn't even come close to describing some of the more intricate mechanics that get used in more advanced holds by the way) and so on. It will not make a pack of wraithwings like the one in Round 3.2 Blunderdome: 2N 1E any more pleasant to try to predict. Some monsters like wraithwings in large groups exhibit behaviors that become unfeasible to predict with any precision due to things like movement order. You can rely on heuristics to get an idea of what kinds of moves and arrangements are likely to lead to solutions, but there really isn't a good way to see several moves ahead what the exact arrangement is going to be. That's not a huge problem as long as the solution to the room isn't too specific or exacting. That being said, I don't think anything in Round 1.1 (or in the rest of the hold for that matter) is really specific enough to qualify as a magic move sequence.

____________________________
Links to neat forum tools that I always have trouble finding:
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Insoluble at 08-13-2017 07:50 AM]
08-13-2017 at 06:37 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 169
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: King Azb's Arena Development Thread (0)  
While Round 3 showed new ways to use old monsters introduced in previous levels (with the exception of the last level, which it seems you haven't reached yet), Round 4 will introduce new monsters, both built-in (such as Serpents or Guards) and scripted (such as, well... play to find out!)

____________________________
Come on down, and contribute a level to Advanced Concepts for TSS!
08-13-2017 at 12:36 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
1
Page 2 of 2
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : King Azb's Arena Development Thread (Haven't made a hold in a long time...)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.