eytanz
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Well, there will definitely be a level 13 in JtRH, because otherwise, it will be difficult to get from level 12 to level 14. It will not, however, be a maze.



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Doom
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Will there be a level 18 in JtRH?
(Check the level 18 description)

gamer_extreme_101
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File: Enlarged Roach Outline.gif (1 KB)
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KDD Level 18 description?? All it has is Beethro throwing a temper tantrum...

[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 at Local Time:12-06-2004 at 10:02 PM]

[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 at Local Time:03-03-2005 at 10:25 PM]

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wmarkham
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Maurog wrote:
I actually enjoyed the level 13 maze. It goes well with the rest of the DROD puzzles, for several reasons. For starters, it's not easy. In fact, it's pretty hard, at least before you figure it out. Then there is this "kill the roach" part, which is the trick that solves it, you sure are familiar with the feeling of finding the trick of a DROD puzzle.

However, I think that in many other puzzles within DROD "finding the trick" teaches one a more general concept or pattern that can be applied or extended to other rooms. That was absent from level 13.

As I was working my way through KDD, I switched installs of DROD, and didn't bother to export/import between the two. Consequently, I solved levels 1-13 twice. (maybe 14 as well, I don't remember.) The only part that I found tedious and uninteresting the second time was level 13.

However, on the first time through, I instead found level 13 to be a delightful change of pace! It brought together entirely familiar game elements to create an entirely new kind of puzzle.

So, it seems to me that it is both very appropriate that the puzzle is there, and also very appropriate that it can be skipped.

Doom
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KDD Level 18 description tells that

Mattcrampy
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I like the idea of having a Level Seventeen A, but I think we can explain it away - can't tell you how, though. Story spoilers, you understand.

Matt

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b0rsuk
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eytanz wrote:
Well, there will definitely be a level 13 in JtRH, because otherwise, it will be difficult to get from level 12 to level 14. It will not, however, be a maze.

Not necessary. There can be Level 12a
It works in Discworld...

If I was JTRH level designer, I would make level13 single empty room with one roach and staircase. (Aww, now I'm contradicting myself)
For sheer fun of shocking veteran D.R.O.D.e.r.s. !

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RonnnL
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I just finished level 13, first time through, and solved it by taking notes. It doesn't take that long if you work efficiently; and i've got a very cool looking map now. I can almost use it as wallpaper. (Real wallpaper that is)

Am I correct that there's one room on level 13 you can't get into? It kinds of messes up the symmetry...

By the way, I'm having serious problems with the new enemy-type in level 14. It's hard to predict the moves...

eytanz
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RonnnL wrote:
I just finished level 13, first time through, and solved it by taking notes. It doesn't take that long if you work efficiently; and i've got a very cool looking map now. I can almost use it as wallpaper. (Real wallpaper that is)

Am I correct that there's one room on level 13 you can't get into? It kinds of messes up the symmetry...

Yes.

By the way, I'm having serious problems with the new enemy-type in level 14. It's hard to predict the moves...

You'll get used to it. Basically, they try to get to you while at the same time not stepping at any square you can hit with your sword (if you give them a choice).

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joker5
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b0rsuk wrote:Not necessary. There can be Level 12a
It works in Discworld...
!

Not so. Rincewind's room was room 7a, not 12a.

Anal-retentive man strikes again!

~joker5

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Mattcrampy
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The latest Discworld, Going Postal, contains a chapter Seven A, as well. However, I understand that the traditonal response of architects is to simply not build a level 18, but go from seventeen to nineteen.

Matt

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SbCl3
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Did anyone here ever make a map for level 13? I did. I got paper and made connected boxes, one for each room. Where there was an exit, I drew a dot. There'd be dots on all four sides with line connecting some of them to other ones. This map never ever failed me. It actually made the maze fun; 13 was one of the most enjoyable levels on all of drod (my favorite however was 15)



[Edited by SbCl3 at Local Time:03-22-2005 at 01:32 AM]

ErikH2000
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That is a very cool map. I'm also glad to hear the occasional person, who like me, enjoyed that maze of hideous proportions. It does take some recordkeeping to get through it, and yes, its very unDROD-like to ask that of people. This level seems to contain no puzzles, but the "puzzle" is what system will you choose to abstract the maze into something manageable.

-Erik

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stigant
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That is EXACTLY (down to using dots to represent exits) what I did to solve level 13. I came across the map when I was cleaning off my desk a couple of weeks ago. I think I threw it away, though. :-(

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SbCl3
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ErikH2000 wrote:
That is a very cool map. I'm also glad to hear the occasional person, who like me, enjoyed that maze of hideous proportions. It does take some recordkeeping to get through it, and yes, its very unDROD-like to ask that of people. This level seems to contain no puzzles, but the "puzzle" is what system will you choose to abstract the maze into something manageable.

-Erik

Thats why I enjoyed level 15 so much and why it will be reflected in the hold i'm currently working on. Oh, that room with the 9 (or so) orbs in that small red area was so much fun (i actually worked this one out on paper too (won't post it; its not very impressive-looking)).

I'd also like to say that thats the best maze i've ever seen, even if it is simpler than it looks. How'd you guys do it? Did you randomly put up exits and then filled in rooms, or did you work it out on paper?

For those who play 13 in the future, don't even start playing it. You're wasting your time. Make a map. It only took me an hour or so, and after it was done I was able to get to where i needed in 3 minutes.

stigant wrote:
I think I threw it away, though. :-(

As did I five (i think it was five; maybe four) years ago (I was 8 or 9 years old at the time....i couldn't think into the future very well). You might just need it again....i really think you should recover it if possible (probably not though). However, my previous knowledge of this kind of cartography allowed me to begin the map without even thinking about it.

[Edited by SbCl3 at Local Time:03-22-2005 at 03:44 AM]

stigant
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You might just need it again

I doubt it. I recently played through KDD a second time and when I got to L13, I just found the online walk through. There are some puzzles in KDD that are worth solving more than once. Level 13 is not one of them.

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Wiz
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i solved it quite quickly ^^ by going through many rooms then looking carefully at the map in "restore" screen .Better than that,the first time i solved it,on webfoot drod,i just played it through...without looking any maps,i guess i'm just good with mazes,it took me less than an hour to reach that roach,and a dozen of minutes to reach the exit ; i think the maze is really enjoyable when you're good with memory and paths.BUT.what annoyed me.is that room you can't go in at all,NW corner.that was a bad bad joke. i hate unreachable places and stuffs (that's why some stairs in JtRH are an offense for me ).But putting a maze was an cool idea (and pretty logic for an architect after all)

jamie
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I liked the maze, I solved it just by remembering where I'd been, and whilst I've not done it for a year or more, I could probably remember it again in about 10 minutes ..

I did this on webfoot drod btw. - I could play it in a small window on FreeBSD using wine, without it taking up too much desktop space

But yeah, I can appreciate the points others have made, however, coming across the exit for the first time, then realising it was blocked due to the roach still being alive seemed very DRODie to me !

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zex20913
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Man...I forgot I even started this topic.

That's what I get for being away for so long, as well as sometimes having a faulty memory.

After reading the debates and whatnot in this thread and others, I believe that it is a good thing for DROD: KDD.

Mainly because without it, there would only be 24 levels, and 25 is the magical number.

Also, each level having a different theme *mostly* or the introduction of something new, it's not that big of a deal to have a maze.

For the "one room only" argument, applied to level 24 2 tar mothers (which was a maze in itself) and level 13, I believe that "Exploration holds" came from these levels, and are not detrimental to the game, but rather an enhancement.

Then again, I like mazes, and some people don't.

Just voicing my opinion now. My word is not law simply because I started the thread.

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Banjooie
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Well, I went to the Hints and Solutions Board, myself.

And I traced my route backwards from the lower left hand corner, twice.

And all I know is that it took me 6 months to beat level 9, but it's taken me 3 days to go from there to level 15.

Seriously, guys. The Wraithwing/Trapdoor thing really needs to stop.

robin
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File: level13.jpg (2.7 MB)
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This is my map I made. copy/paste in paintbrush and then with a textmarker find the exit and first ofcourse the roach.


[Edited by robin at Local Time:05-30-2005 at 03:24 PM]

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