TheEpickz98
Level: Goblin

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can it be done? and I think this post has came up before.

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[Last edited by TheEpickz98 at 06-02-2014 06:12 AM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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TheEpickz98 wrote:
can it be done?

No.

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The spitemaster
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Maybe. It's difficult.
Someone else assures me that this is in fact possible with the script additions that he believes are in there.

EDIT: Don't hurt me!

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He wasn't there again today
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[Last edited by The spitemaster at 06-02-2014 07:13 AM]

mrimer
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Okay, you got me. I admit it. I was trolling.

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Nuntar
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Believe me, the gentryii are so fun to play with, you'll never want to suggest a new serpent again

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Nuntar wrote:
Believe me, the gentryii are so fun to play with, you'll never want to suggest a new serpent again

I know better things to play with, if you know what I mean.

And as you all know I am a great lover of tar, it should be pretty obvious what I meant .

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Trickster
Level: Smitemaster

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Can we somehow merge serpents with tarstuff? I'm getting a bit excited just thinking about it!

I have a problem.

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Moo
Level: Master Delver
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A serpent, that eats things and grows, as with an adder. When it has reached a certain length, instead of growing it releases a baby from its tail end. This baby moves like a roach. When 3 or more such babies remain in a touching configuration for one turn, they congeal into a new serpent of that length.

How's that?

Trickster
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Maybe an adder that, as it eats things, instead of getting longer it gets a lump that travels down its body and that's the only thing that's stabbable.

And maybe then it poops a tar baby. Er, don't read that last part.

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mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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And now we're going to have to nail all the chairs to the floor.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Someone Else
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Yeah, it's totally going to be possible. Might be that each one will have to be done individually, or some other issues.

Actually, now that I think about it, it should be possible to make a serpent in GatEB. Not easy, and a lot of finicky specific-variable stuff, but not impossible either. But it'll be a lot easier in TSS, AFAIK.

Also custom tarstuff. But that'll be really hard either way. I did get close in GatEB...

Trickster
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mrimer wrote:
And now we're going to have to nail all the chairs to the floor.

Ha ha! I totally get that reference in its entirety, truly I do! ...

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[Last edited by Trickster at 06-03-2014 03:30 AM]

Trickster
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Someone Else wrote:
I did get close in GatEB...

That's the closest smiley you guys have for "zomg tell me more" except maybe the snorkel one, and I have to wonder how much Pepsi spent to get the Pepsi smiley in the default package because I'm sure it was there initially so probably some money changed hands. I live on a Coke campus so you can't find Mountain Dew anywhere. I mean, seriously! Any building owned by the university is required by one of those food service contracts to serve only Coke products (and I know what those can be like because I negotiated one--well actually technically we had a guy who was scheduled to go there to negotiate one but he had a heart attack so he missed the meeting, and then they shut us out; can you believe that, he had a freaking heart attack! those heartless corporate bastards wheeling and dealing behind our backs I tell you) and this includes buildings where Ohio State University doesn't even have a business: the pizza place I go which is privately owned rents the building from OSU as they have for the past like, twenty years (of course OSU isn't ever going to sell), so they can't sell Mountain Dew and they wish they could. I'm like their best customer too, and they don't have to ask me for my order because I always get the same thing because of the whole "selective eating disorder" thing. I don't remember what this was about--oh, right, food service contracts are a rip and I'd like to know more about how you got GatEB to do that thing and I might even start doing hold stuff again srsly. Pain medication fatigue is a terrible thing. I like DROD.

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[Last edited by Trickster at 06-03-2014 03:30 AM]

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

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I don't know why I read all that.

But I agree.

You need to tell us more about this serpent stuff.

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Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

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Okay, for tar:
You can't use any other NPCs in the room - at least not visible ones. Each turn, the tar checks each space around it and determines its shape based on the spaces that are filled. If there aren't enough for that space to be stable, it turns into a tar baby. Unfortunately, I don't believe that with this system you can make it turn into a baby that's the right colour... but that's beside the point.
Every 30 turns, if there's a mother in the room, each tar space attempts to place another tar NPC in every empty space beside it, causing the tar to grow.
In order to make vulnerable spots, the tarstuff simply changes vulnerability based on what image it appears as.
I was attempting to make a tarstuff that would reassemble itself if possible. This required leaving the babies as NPCs and having them attempt to turn back into tarstuff each turn.

Difficulties:
- Sometimes Beethro would be killed by the babies that formed that turn.
- Sometimes expanding tar wouldn't lead to correct images.
- Sometimes some babies would attempt to reform while others (looking like they should be in the same blob) just moved.

Most of these would be fixed with Wait For Entity (NPC_TYPE). The rest would be fixed by by messing around with the code - upon growth, the tarstuff would have to check for stability, then grow, then check for appearance.

For Serpents:
Right now, a serpent can be made by having that serpent's length recorded in a variable. Then, each piece remembers which piece of the serpent is ahead of it and which piece is behind (the latter takes place the next turn, when it turns into a body part from the head). At L-1 turns after it appears, the piece turns into a tail. After L turns, it disappears. This is a basic serpent. Each piece would have to be invulnerable.
To move, the head would create a serpent NPC adjacent to itself, then change its appearance to the correct picture.
For a rattlesnake, the tail would be vulnerable. The piece in front of the tail would check "Wait for Event (NPC slain)" and if true, check the tile behind it, decrementing the length by one if there's no NPC there. The head would also have to signal to the rest of the body if it's not moving so that it doesn't shrink. There would be issues with these:
- They couldn't move on to swords. It's possible that each part could just move, but that would be horrendously complex. Now that I think of it, though, you might be able to have each piece tell the one behind where to move... Still might not be able to move on to swords, though.
- As it stands, the movement order would be wrong - the tail would get its turn first, and the head last. So the tail wouldn't know if the head couldn't move.
- There would be little or no possibility of multiple cuts in a turn.
As for adders... I don't know. It's impossible right now, as monsters can't kill other monsters without a sword.

Hammerite
Level: Delver
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I was thinking about this. I thought the snake could split in two when stabbed at a corner. The head would remain a head. The tail would become a new head. The new snake would be inserted in the monster movement order just behind the existing one (the one that still has the same head).

You would have to be careful about whether you created snakes of length 2, as these can't have corners in and therefore wouldn't be able to be killed by stabbing.

The spitemaster
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No. This is how you would solve the parity problem. A two length snake would just die.

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away

Hammerite
Level: Delver
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The spitemaster wrote:
No. This is how you would solve the parity problem. A two length snake would just die.

I considered this as well, but came to the conclusion that allowing them to be length 2 was better on these grounds:

1. It might give rise to puzzles where you need to make snakes that can't be killed by stabbing, and then later on you have to kill them some other way. (Perhaps you need them to fit in a two-square gap at some point.)

2. If there was a snake of length 5 with a corner in the middle, then if length-2 snakes were to die automatically, you could kill the snake entirely with a single stab. That seems like a lot more than you can do with just one stab with existing snakes. That doesn't mean it can't be done, it just makes me wary of the idea.

3. If you can't have snakes of length 2 then it's inconsistent with existing snake types.

The 3rd one here is important because what if there were to be introduced, at a later date, a new type of token that switches snake types the way the tarstuff tokens switch tar types? You would be able to kill existing length 2 snakes by stepping on the token. Now maybe this would make for interesting puzzles, but maybe it wouldn't.

Having to be careful not to create snakes you can't kill is somewhat similar to having to take care over cutting tarstuff, too.

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[Last edited by Hammerite at 06-30-2014 04:56 PM]