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schep
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icon Re: met-DROiD! (+1)  
Or actually, now I got it. (Always try those tricky rooms once before and after posting for a hint.) Unfortunately, I don't really understand what happened well enough to give good hints. But I'll try a few general comments anyway:

Click here to view the secret text

03-23-2005 at 03:16 AM
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geomatrx
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icon Re: met-DROiD! (+1)  
DOH! Thanks Tim (slaps head about 8S10E). i'll remove the second potion now me thinks :)

about the 4 goblin roon.
Click here to view the secret text
03-23-2005 at 09:37 AM
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Tim
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Well, errr... I still don't get it... I can't even kill one.

I think I need some demo right now :weep
03-23-2005 at 04:31 PM
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schep
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File: MetDROiD MetDROiD 14S13E Victory.demo (2.4 KB)
Downloaded 63 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified
icon Re: met-DROiD! (+2)  
Finished the hold. It was a nice ending sequence. The stairs bug hit me, but I still don't understand whether that bug occurs for the player, author, or what.

Some of the puzzles on the way to code 20 seemed easier than intended. In particular, I solved 13S 6E on my first visit by
Click here to view the secret text
13S 7E I was able to easily solve on my second visit,
Click here to view the secret text
but that's probably just because 13S 6E didn't restrict which exit I took like it was intended to.

And I'm attaching my demo from the four-goblin room. It's obviously inefficient in a few places, but reasonably short.
[Edit: Actually, it's now a newer better demo I made when I wanted to see if I could do it again.]

[Edited by schep at Local Time:03-24-2005 at 08:36 PM: posted wrong file]
03-23-2005 at 10:11 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: met-DROiD! (0)  
Erm, that's not the demo of the 4 goblins room I was looking for, I was talking about the one with a brain in ;)

I still need some help :|

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03-24-2005 at 12:12 PM
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Stefan
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icon Re: met-DROiD! (+1)  
Um... I have a demo of it, but you wouldn't be able to import it (I copied the room to a new hold and played it there to get a demo). However, I can give you the moves required (using my demo-utility):
Click here to view the secret text


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03-24-2005 at 01:21 PM
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schep
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Whoops! Sorry, I remembered exporting a demo and just grabbed the file without checking what it was. But it was in that other room we had been discussing. I have replaced the file above with one more appropriate.

And I can't get Stefan's to work, but I'm probably just not following it correctly.
03-24-2005 at 08:48 PM
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geomatrx
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quote:
schep wrote:
I solved 13S 6E on my first visit by
Click here to view the secret text


Thanks schep. I've now edited this so you can't complete the room the first time you enter it you now have to go around and enter from the south-east. This now makes the next room more tricky.
quote:
13S 7E I was able to easily solve on my second visit,
Click here to view the secret text
...

Thats exactly how to solve the room, but with the previous room now edited, you have to enter 13s7e a few times.

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03-24-2005 at 09:10 PM
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Stefan
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quote:
schep wrote:
And I can't get Stefan's to work, but I'm probably just not following it correctly.
No, you're following it correctly, but there seems to be some compatibility issues (it works in JtRH, but not in AE; I'll have to investigate it further). Here's a sequence that works for AE:
Click here to view the secret text


[Edited by Stefan at Local Time:03-24-2005 at 09:24 PM: errors --> issues]

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03-24-2005 at 09:18 PM
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Tim
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Heh, I've been at 3N3E now... The rest of the room are too harsh for me. I think I'm going to stop, and wait till the final version comes, as schep has already finished it :)

I've only got 2 comments left:
quote:
geomatrx wrote:
Thats exactly how to solve the room, but with the previous room now edited, you have to enter 13s7e a few times.
1. You mean you did not change 13s7e? Well, I passed 13s6e in the normal manner, but I still could solve 13s7e on the first normal entry (from SW).
Click here to view the secret text

2. Having played Metroid Zero Mission, I really missed those hints to tell you which direction the next scroll/gate should be. It's not necessary, but I must say that #4 was a bit hard to find.

-- Tim

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03-25-2005 at 11:00 PM
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geomatrx
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quote:
Tim wrote:
You mean you did not change 13s7e? Well, I passed 13s6e in the normal manner, but I still could solve 13s7e on the first normal entry (from SW).

Well if you can do it first time, thats great. The problem before though was completeing 13s6e, as you could miss the rooms to the left without penalty. if you completed 13s7e first time, you still have to enter 13s8e and open the green gate here.
Click here to view the secret text
quote:
Having played Metroid Zero Mission, I really missed those hints to tell you which direction the next scroll/gate should be. It's not necessary, but I must say that #4 was a bit hard to find.
In the original NES metroid (metroid 2 and super metroid), you had no help with items or guidance what so ever. I see your point though. I'll consider maybe including a rough direction you should head to next (though this will get difficult when you can have multiple directions to choose. giving no advice allows the player to make their own decisions, preventing a linear 'mission' style hold.

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03-25-2005 at 11:53 PM
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Tim
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quote:
geomatrx wrote:
In the original NES metroid (metroid 2 and super metroid), you had no help with items or guidance what so ever. I see your point though. I'll consider maybe including a rough direction you should head to next (though this will get difficult when you can have multiple directions to choose. giving no advice allows the player to make their own decisions, preventing a linear 'mission' style hold.
Just to make it clear, I don't think you should to add anything at all. But I do find I had to look on the map in the editor a lot to see where I should go next. I think Zero Mission is too linear, and you shouldn't do that.

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03-25-2005 at 11:59 PM
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Watcher
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Tim, are you perchance playing this hold in the JtRH beta? If so, you can doubleclick on the minimap to bring up an overview of all rooms you've visited. I used that feature quite a lot while playing this hold.

Also, a quick comment on JtRH compatibility: In JtRH, you can click on an orb to see what it does, and with the way you've made the locks, it's easy to figure out the correct order of the orbs. However, it's possible to make a lock that you can't analyze your way through by using the new scripting system. So once JtRH comes out, you might want to update the hold, but not much needs to be done.

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03-26-2005 at 12:40 AM
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Tim
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quote:
Watcher wrote:
Tim, are you perchance playing this hold in the JtRH beta? If so, you can doubleclick on the minimap to bring up an overview of all rooms you've visited. I used that feature quite a lot while playing this hold.
I must say I did not really used that feature, since I really do not want to take that long walk and back ;) I must say though, this hold has so many screens that the map fills up the whole screen completely. Any larger, and the map display will not fit. (Just tried it by adding some more rooms to the north and south of the hold.)
quote:
In JtRH, [..] it's easy to figure out the correct order of the orbs.
I only used this feature to open the unknown gate, since that gate was hard enough...
quote:
schep wrote:
The stairs bug hit me, but I still don't understand whether that bug occurs for the player, author, or what.
The stairs bug is - I think - a DROD bug, but it can be solved easily by the author, and I think I wrote it somewhere before:
quote:
I've already written a short text about what you should do in another post (you might want to read the whole thread to see other solutions) : http://www.drod.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=3301&page=0#41484
-- Tim

[Edited by Tim at Local Time:03-26-2005 at 08:11 AM: spelling]

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03-26-2005 at 07:56 AM
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geomatrx
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quote:
Watcher wrote:
...In JtRH, you can click on an orb to see what it does, and with the way you've made the locks, it's easy to figure out the correct order of the orbs. However, it's possible to make a lock that you can't analyze your way through by using the new scripting system. So once JtRH comes out, you might want to update the hold, but not much needs to be done.


Theres 2 ways of looking at this:
1. If I release this hold in the holds forum as it is now, and people play it in JtRH, they will have an unfair advantage that when they come across a door, they can just enter the code and progress on a room by room basis. If I then update the hold when JtRH is released, an older version has still been released.

2. There really is no real advantage, as the hold requires all the code rooms to be completed before the blue gate opens (i assume JtRH doesn't let you walk through these too :D). However, less backtracking will need to be done as users will technically have all the codes anyway.

When I am ready to release the FINAL hold, can I get the scripts changed using JtRH somehow? (I actually wanted to release this hold by April 1st (No joke!:lol)

OR (if not to late modify JtRH)

When Importing AE holds to JtRH, can the default setting of the orb scripts be desabled?

[Edited by geomatrx at Local Time:03-26-2005 at 11:53 AM]

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[Last edited by geomatrx at 07-11-2005 12:45 AM]
03-26-2005 at 11:44 AM
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schep
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icon Re: met-DROiD! (+1)  
I would be against putting information on where the next code/gate is into the game. I certainly didn't visit them all in order, and it was fun to just explore as I was able. My notes had locations of codes I had found but not reached and locations of all the gates along with the codes themselves. So at a glance I could usually figure out where I could explore next, and roughly how to get there. I did use the Restore screen map quite a bit, and JtRH's map thing would have been quite nice for this hold, but getting around wasn't a pain.

I can't really imagine why anybody would want to "cheat" to get through this hold. But I guess there will always be a few. The problem with the codes is that the only effective way of implementing them in AE is gates hidden under tar, but gates under tar are never entirely hidden from the player in JtRH. Using the JtRH character scripting system is an alternate solution (I guess the character is programmed to take some action if orbs are struck in the correct sequence), but of course that can't be programmed or played by most of us yet. If this were my hold, I would leave it in Architecture until JtRH, and then completely redesign all the gates. The unknown gate would take extra thought. But it's not my hold, so.

03-27-2005 at 08:29 PM
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