Keiya
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Hmm. The help file certainly could be improved... maybe on the model of Minecraft Wiki? They have somewhat similar elements (blocks, monsters, and items are, from a documentation standpoint, pretty similar to tile types, monsters, and items). It might also be smart to build documentation wiki-style (though with different licensing of course), because there IS a lot to document...

Hmm, this thought-path is large enough it needs its own thread I think. In... general, maybe? It's not really an FR or a bug...

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Tim
Level: Smitemaster

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It's easter weekend and I have enough of people nailing me up on a (virtual) cross.

I gave up on this thread some time ago and I have no intention of reading/writing anything here anymore.

Fortunately it doesn't matter much as it seems to be directed to the development team rather than me.

As a consolation prize I'll hand out some mod points instead to posters above me.

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Banjooie
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My goodness, Tim, a feature request is directed at the development team and not you specifically?

That's amazing.

See you on Monday, I suppose.

Syntax
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Here's a slightly different angle on this debate (but still relevant):
Why exactly are we trying to make DROD more accessible? and to whom?

Point is that DROD is a very difficult game, and I don't think any "help", "extra hints", "simpler introduction" etc along the way will convince anyone this game is for them unless they enjoy a challenge.

And I think, for most of us in this thread alone, discovering and solving each challenge is most of the fun.

skell
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Syntax wrote:
Point is that DROD is a very difficult game, and I don't think any "help", "extra hints", "simpler introduction" etc along the way will convince anyone this game is for them unless they enjoy a challenge.

Actually I think that simpler introduction will work. I am fairly sure people are more likely to stay if they are gently let into the game, instead of being fed with, for example, TCB as their very first game.

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Syntax
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skell wrote:

Syntax wrote:
Point is that DROD is a very difficult game, and I don't think any "help", "extra hints", "simpler introduction" etc along the way will convince anyone this game is for them unless they enjoy a challenge.

Actually I think that simpler introduction will work. I am fairly sure people are more likely to stay if they are gently let into the game, instead of being fed with, for example, TCB as their very first game.

I agree with TCB being the wrong start, but KDD let's you know what DROD is about. Whether people stay or not? I'm not sure that depends on the introduction to DROD.

Moo
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skell wrote: Actually I think that simpler introduction will work. I am fairly sure people are more likely to stay if they are gently let into the game, instead of being fed with, for example, TCB as their very first game.

Hear, hear!

The easier the intro, the more likely (I'd say anyway) that people are likely to start/continue playing rather than quickly coming to the conclusion that the whole thing is so incomprehensible that it's not worth it.
I'd say a good, long, detailed tutorial hold should be included with the demos, and information about how to access this should be obvious. Maybe even a separate menu item that runs this hold.

As for "DROD is a very difficult game" - by postulating that, you are limiting the audience greatly. DROD doesn't have to be very difficult, it just can be. If the players more comfortable with the less-difficult stuff can be accommodated more, rather than just the experts, it'd result in a much bigger audience, which can only be a good thing. People may well be capable of the "very difficult" stuff, but with a steep learning curve, they may well give up much too early.

A wiki would be great too, not just for new players, but for everyone. Information about everything could be organised nicely instead of being buried in various forum topics, files, etc.
2007 thread about a wiki.
I found this and this DROD-related wiki on Wikia (where a lot of game-related wikis are hosted), but they are barely started. Maybe a mediawiki could be hosted by Caravel. Or the drod.wikia could be brought up to scratch.

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Actually I could lend my own server to set up a wiki if that was required.

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Syntax
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Moo wrote:
As for "DROD is a very difficult game" - by postulating that, you are limiting the audience greatly. DROD doesn't have to be very difficult, it just can be. If the players more comfortable with the less-difficult stuff can be accommodated more, rather than just the experts, it'd result in a much bigger audience, which can only be a good thing. People may well be capable of the "very difficult" stuff, but with a steep learning curve, they may well give up much too early.

DROD is a difficult game. I'm personally not convinced that attracting more people with the promise of an easy game would sway more players to remain in the long-term.

The learning curve is what makes DROD addictive imo

Keiya
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Syntax wrote:
DROD is a difficult game. I'm personally not convinced that attracting more people with the promise of an easy game would sway more players to remain in the long-term.

The learning curve is what makes DROD addictive imo

But does 'difficult' have to mean 'inaccessable'? The challenge could (and arguably should) be in solving the puzzles, not figuring out what you're looking at.

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Syntax
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Keiya wrote:

Syntax wrote:
DROD is a difficult game. I'm personally not convinced that attracting more people with the promise of an easy game would sway more players to remain in the long-term.

The learning curve is what makes DROD addictive imo

But does 'difficult' have to mean 'inaccessable'? The challenge could (and arguably should) be in solving the puzzles, not figuring out what you're looking at.

If DROD was "inaccessable", most of us wouldn't still be here