Announcement: Be excellent to each other.


Caravel Forum : Other Boards : Forum Games : Moviepicker. (A Game for Picking a Movie to Watch)
1
Page 2 of 2
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
stigant
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1173
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+1)  
quote:
The best any system is going to do is pick a winner that's as preferred as possible to as many people as possible.


Right, so what we want to measure is whether Erik's system does a better job (or at least no worse of a job) of picking a winner that's as preferred as possible to as many people as possible. But since your evaluation method doesn't take into account how much we like or dislike each movie, the only result we're going to get out of your evaluation is that Erik's system picked a different movie as a straight preference system picked. How does that tell us if the movie that Erik's system picked is a better choice than the straight preference system?

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress
11-22-2011 at 07:49 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2436
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+1)  
Well, all right, so how can you tell whether a movie is the best possible choice for a group, if it's not the movie that best matches the preferences of the voters?

Let me take a different tack, I suppose. I don't know for certain that what any given voting system produces will be a better match than what Erik's system produces. On the other hand, if four or five different systems all produce Movie X, and Erik's produces Movie Y, I think that'll be fairly indicative.

For that matter, if Erik's produces Movie Y, and when everyone expresses their preferences, it turns out that everyone prefers Movie X to Movie Y (except, perhaps, the person who removed Movie X from the list), I think that'll also be fairly indicative.

My strong suspicion, really, is that Erik's system will end up picking something that falls, according to most metrics, right in the middle of the preference order--it'll be something that's kind of vaguely all right with everyone, but not something that has a decent amount of actual enthusiasm (albeit with a little bit of opposition).

[Last edited by Tahnan at 11-22-2011 08:37 PM]
11-22-2011 at 08:18 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
stigant
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1173
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+1)  
quote:
Well, all right, so how can you tell whether a movie is the best possible choice for a group, if it's not the movie that best matches the preferences of the voters?


Well, first, I don't have an answer, that's why I asked. I find this question at least as interesting as the process itself. I imagine that at the very least we need to have everybody assign each potential movie a satisfaction score (say a number from -100 to 100) that would represent how satisfied they would be with that choice. Then, perhaps, look at the total satisfaction of the movie chosen by each system? I don't think that's perfect, but it at least has the potential to provide a reason to prefer one system over another.

EDIT: Actually, maybe what we ought to be measuring is how much enjoyment/satisfaction people got from parties which used method A to pick the movie vs how much enjoyment/satisfaction people got from parties which used method B to pick the movie. This would take into account how fair they thought the movie picking process was as well as the quality of the result. Of course that's going to be a more difficult evaluation method to set up (especially in this case where we logistically can't actually get together to see the movie) since every party is going to be different in ways other than the movie-picking method.

Secondly, you seem to have defined "The Best Movie Choice" as the choice that would have come out of a straight preference ranking vote. Isn't the point here to find a system that might work better? (If not, then why not use a straight preference ranking vote?) As you pointed out, every system has the potential flaw of making people bolt after the movie is chosen. We should be after a system that minimizes this eventuality. The question is how to measure the likelihood of each potential system choosing such a movie.

Also, getting away from evaluation, I see a potential wrench in the process: What if there are no movies left on the list when the host gets to their third turn (during and after which nobody can add any more movies). I suggest an additional rule that you can't, at any time, remove the only movie on the list.

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

[Last edited by stigant at 11-22-2011 08:41 PM]
11-22-2011 at 08:32 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2436
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
quote:
stigant wrote:
Secondly, you seem to have defined "The Best Movie Choice" as the choice that would have come out of a straight preference ranking vote. Isn't the point here to find a system that might work better? (If not, then why not use a straight preference ranking vote?)
Why not, indeed?

quote:
As you pointed out, every system has the potential flaw of making people bolt after the movie is chosen. We should be after a system that minimizes this eventuality.
That's one possible goal, but I'm not sure I agree that that's what we want in a system. For instance, here's a method that would (possibly) work to keep people from bolting: "We'll watch The Princess Bride." If your group of people is such that no one's going to actively leave the room if The Princess Bride is on, even though everyone's seen it before and no one really particularly wants to watch it, then the method certainly minimizes the chance of people bolting--but I'm not convinced that makes it the best method.

Nor is it obvious to me that the Moviepicker method will actually minimize that. I hate horror movies; clearly Erik loves them. All it takes is two people adding horror movies, and no one but me removing them, to ensure that one of them makes it all the way through the process--I won't have enough turns to veto all of them. If you really want to minimize bolting, what you want is a Quaker-style consensus: any decision must be reached by group agreement, and nothing counts as an agreement if even one person opposes it, or if more than two people don't actively agree with it.


11-23-2011 at 01:10 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
noma
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Removing Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

Inglourious Basterds ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361748/ ).
Man on the Moon ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125664/ ).
Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ ).
Dark City ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118929/ )
The Princess Bride ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ )
V for Vendetta ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ )
American Psycho ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144084/ )
11-23-2011 at 02:24 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1841
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Removing Inglorious Bastards because it looks too much like American self-glorification.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator
11-23-2011 at 02:33 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2375
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Removing Man on the Moon. I saw it once, liked it okay, but can't get excited about a rewatch.

Left on the list:

Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ ).
Dark City ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118929/ )
The Princess Bride ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ )
V for Vendetta ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ )
American Psycho ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144084/ )

Just four more removals, and we will have a movie picked!

-Erik

____________________________
Godkiller Gamedev Sundays (live sessions every Sunday 3pm PST where I make a new puzzle game)
youtube (archive of live streams, and some animated videos I made)
11-23-2011 at 06:19 AM
View Profile Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2375
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
quote:
stigant wrote:
Actually, maybe what we ought to be measuring is how much enjoyment/satisfaction people got from parties which used method A to pick the movie vs how much enjoyment/satisfaction people got from parties which used method B to pick the movie.

Yeah, that's reasonable, and as you point out, hard to test. But continuing your thought...

The thing about movie-watching parties is that people are usually not that engrossed in the movie. There is a lot of socializing and talking over parts. So an argument could be made that a movie that a lot of people feel just okay about is better than a more passionate choice. If this is true, then a system like Moviepicker which gives a lot of opportunity to remove movies YOU HATE, even if most everybody else tends to like it, is a good system.

-Erik

____________________________
Godkiller Gamedev Sundays (live sessions every Sunday 3pm PST where I make a new puzzle game)
youtube (archive of live streams, and some animated videos I made)
11-23-2011 at 06:30 AM
View Profile Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2375
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
quote:
west.logan wrote:
Honestly, my approach is generally "Hey guys, I'm watching 'A' tonight, would you like to join me?"

That isn't convoluted enough for me.

____________________________
Godkiller Gamedev Sundays (live sessions every Sunday 3pm PST where I make a new puzzle game)
youtube (archive of live streams, and some animated videos I made)
11-23-2011 at 06:38 AM
View Profile Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2458
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Removing American Psycho, because I don't like gore, and it seems to sway towards it.

Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ ).
Dark City ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118929/ ).
The Princess Bride ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ ).
V for Vendetta ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ ).

I must say, left are only those movies which I wouldn't mind watching. Tahnan, so, you want us to send you our "ratings"?

Human Centipede 2 ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1530509/ ). +ErikH2000 -Jatopian
Inglourious Basterds ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361748/ ). +Lamkin -Jatopian
Man on the Moon ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125664/ ). +skell -ErikH2000
Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ ). +west.logan
Immortals ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/ ). +ErikH2000 -ErikH2000
Night of the Living Dead ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063350/ ). +RatMan -west.logan
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446029/ ). +Maurog -Jatopian
Dark City ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118929/ ). +skell -Stigant
The Princess Bride ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ ). +noma
Rise of the Planet of the Apes ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318514/ ). +Rheb -noma
V for Vendetta ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ ). +skell -west.logan
American Psycho ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144084/ ). +Jatopian -skell
The Last Unicorn ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084237/ ). +stigant -ErikH2000
American Psycho 2 ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283877/ ). +Maurog -west.logan
Zombieland ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1156398/ ). +Schik -skell

____________________________
My website | Facebook | Twitter

[Last edited by skell at 11-23-2011 05:40 PM]
11-23-2011 at 06:56 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
stigant
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1173
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
I don't know if it's my turn or not, but if I get the chance, I'm going to remove Dark City. It was terrible. That leaves 3 movies that I wouldn't be adverse to watching.

Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ ).
The Princess Bride ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ ).
V for Vendetta ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ )

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress
11-23-2011 at 02:59 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
west.logan
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 585
Registered: 03-09-2011
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+1)  
I think I have a turn coming up but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing any of those again...

Remove V for Vendetta?

Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ ).
The Princess Bride ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ ).

____________________________
-Logan
11-23-2011 at 05:00 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
noma
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
It's been almost 12 hours since the last removal, so if it's okay I'm removing Princess Bride. (Inception was actually at the top of my list since I haven't seen it yet.)

Inception ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ )
11-24-2011 at 04:20 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2436
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
quote:
I must say, left are only those movies which I wouldn't mind watching. Tahnan, so, you want us to send you our "ratings"?
By all means. Either sort the following list, or number them from 1 (most want to watch) to 14 (least want to watch); ties are fine.

American Psycho
American Psycho 2
Dark City
Human Centipede 2
Inception
Immortals
Inglourious Basterds
Man on the Moon
Night of the Living Dead
Rise of the Planet of the Apes
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
The Last Unicorn
The Princess Bride
V for Vendetta
Zombieland

11-24-2011 at 07:54 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2458
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+1)  
Here is the list:
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
My website | Facebook | Twitter
11-24-2011 at 11:52 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
west.logan
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 585
Registered: 03-09-2011
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
-Logan
11-25-2011 at 03:34 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1841
Registered: 07-31-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
I honestly hate picking favorites and find ranking things difficult. I will say that I found Inception a quite acceptable outcome.

I think maybe a risk of this scenario is you get the lowest common denominator of your friend circle? Which isn't such a huge deal unless your friend circle is all of society and you end up watching the Michael Bay remake of Avatar*

* does not exist. yet.

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator
11-25-2011 at 04:17 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2375
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Godkiller Gamedev Sundays (live sessions every Sunday 3pm PST where I make a new puzzle game)
youtube (archive of live streams, and some animated videos I made)
11-26-2011 at 04:42 AM
View Profile Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
stigant
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1173
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (0)  
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Progress Quest Progress
11-28-2011 at 02:21 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1918
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+2)  
The sequel should have been called Human Cen2pede. Then Human Centithreede.

Hum4n Centipede.
Human Pentepede.

Edit: Then Human Centipede 6.

____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 11-28-2011 03:20 AM]
11-28-2011 at 03:19 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2375
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Moviepicker. (+1)  
quote:
RoboBob3000 wrote:
The sequel should have been called Human Cen2pede. Then Human Centithr

Do they have consultants for movie sequel names? You should be one! I like how you figure out several sequel names at once. It seems to me that you could provide solid value at a reasonable price with this efficiency.

-Erik

____________________________
Godkiller Gamedev Sundays (live sessions every Sunday 3pm PST where I make a new puzzle game)
youtube (archive of live streams, and some animated videos I made)
12-01-2011 at 07:03 PM
View Profile Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
1
Page 2 of 2
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : Other Boards : Forum Games : Moviepicker. (A Game for Picking a Movie to Watch)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.