eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: Hold Anonymous.drh (50.7 KB)
Downloaded 82 times.
License: Public Domain

This is the Hold Anonymous. A dungeon designed by a group of people, who were complete strangers and didn't communicate.

Now, if you weren't following this forum game, here's a brief summary: some members of the forum build two rooms for a level, and then the GM assembles them. At any given point before the deadline they are unaware of others' rooms, which is the very point of the game. So far six levels have been created and the intended length of the hold has been reached. This means that the only things remaining are to clean it up and polish it to perfection

I have submitted this hold for HA approval.

____________________________

---

[Last edited by eb0ny at 08-18-2009 08:43 PM]

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

VIPCOOL wrote:
Can I make some changes to my room as Nuntar suggested?

Of course. Slightly updated version of the hold uploaded.

____________________________

---

[Last edited by eb0ny at 02-20-2009 05:51 PM]

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 962
Registered: 05-16-2005
IP: Logged

I know this question might not belong here, but are you planning to make another RPG Anonymous game? Or will you stop there? If so, mind if I host a new one?

Anyhow, I didn't manage to get through level 1, but I got through Level 2 by using the 'general stats' given at the start of Round 2, I made it to the end of that one...

Level 1 is sure a big pain in the rear...

____________________________
I make Let's Plays too!
Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


My Holds:
-Completed:

-Work in Progress:

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I know this question might not belong here, but are you planning to make another RPG Anonymous game? Or will you stop there? If so, mind if I host a new one?

Well, I might start another game if there's demand. Since I do not own the game in any way, you can host the next game if you wish to do so.

____________________________

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: RPG Hold Anonymous.drh (28 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

Update 1. Level names and scrolls have been slightly refurbished, baby wubba became juvenile black wubba.

And I have removed the entrance texts. Yes, it took me this long to realize that I won't be able to provide seven convincing excerpts of the media of the Eighth. Two, maybe three, but not seven. Sorry. I would appreciate any help in this area, but it isn't essential.

So, next I will be concentrating on the actual story, cutscenes and scripting. Things like a prologue on the surface etc.

____________________________

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I've played through it, and my main-complaint is that there doesn't seem to be a very large need for the diferent object. I never thought "it would have been nice with a wall walk here!" nor "if only I was twice as fast while meeting this enemy!". Basically the toughest enemy was adders, but you didn't get particulary rewarded for beating an adder. Sure, you could use the hand bomb to kill a slayer to get a blue key, but so what? Sure, it's optimizing, but it also feels a bit pointless.

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

It just so happened that when the levels were built, almost no accessories had to be used to complete them. So my idea is to let player exchange them for extra stats before the final boss battle. For example, you could exchange the hand bomb for 12 ATK and 12 DEF or whatever. But for that I need some more data, which is why I originally asked everyone to opt for minimum or maximum amount of reputation, as the boss is supposed to scale to it.

Basically, at some reputation the boss will expect some stats at will deal some damage before being killed. As the reputation increases, the expected stats increase, and the damage dealt fluctuates somewhat. This is the thing I try to balance, and that's why I need your scores.

Ideally, at the two extremes (min/max reputation) should give the best equipment and require the most optimization (not godlike-Rabscuttle one, playing above-average should suffice) to complete, with difficulty and reward decreasing to the middle. This should allow two different ways of optimizing. At least in theory. If anyone has any suggestions don't hesitate to put the forward.

Currently, best minimalist run is 280ATK/220DEF/11500REP, and the best maximalist run is 420ATK/330DEF/29000REP.
I would be thankful if you posted your score at the end of level 5.

BTW, anyone has a clue why 1E in the fifth level takes so relatively long to load?

____________________________

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

My score before going down to the final fight (quite maximalistic):
Score 4106 (12375 452 359 11/10/2/3) Rep 26567. I could get a higher Rep by doing idiotic kills (that actually lowers my score).

The boss takes a bit more than 6000 lives away.

---

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 02-24-2009 06:55 AM]

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
My score before going down to the final fight (quite maximalistic):

Yeah, that's rather much. Thank you.

____________________________

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: RPG Hold Anonymous.drh (33.8 KB)
Downloaded 46 times.
License: Public Domain

Update 2.
Mostly cutscene additions and modifications. Also some minor tweaks in places.

I will now start working on the boss. Stay tuned.

____________________________

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: RPG Hold Anonymous.drh (34.7 KB)
Downloaded 51 times.
License: Public Domain

Update 3.
Proper final level, the boss and placeholders for endings and rewards added.

Boss will not scale to player stats. I found this approach to be impossible to balance properly, because at different points in the game he will be either too easy or too hard, and none satisfying, because the thing scales! So, currently boss takes about 12k HP to kill with Blondbeard's stats above. No cutscenes yet.

Also, there are three endings (so far)
PACIFIST - Have <3000 REP when entering the Vault.
NORMAL (or DESCENDANT - story purposes) - Kill the boss the usual way.
PURIFIER - Have >30000 REP and obtain 7 different accessories (which means that pickaxe/bomb is required).

Sorry for the delay, I had to take the IELTS exam this week and there were some school matters.

____________________________

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: RPG Hold Anonymous.drh (42.7 KB)
Downloaded 50 times.
License: Public Domain

Update 4.
Custom equipment (hold rewards) is in place (i.e. eb0ny does pixel art) and pacifist ending should be finished. Two more to go - they take me a long time to do.

____________________________

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: Hold Anonymous.drh (49.7 KB)
Downloaded 76 times.
License: Public Domain

Update 5.
Finally brought myself to finish the cutscenes. The main reason they took me so long is because I have very little writing skills to create a story I would enjoy. Also, I added accessory sacrifice spots to speed up opening of the tar gates in the Vault.

What's next? Unless we (all 9 hold's architects) agree to add some hidden extra, I think it is more or less done.
Now, can someone give me an honest opinion of whether these cutscenes are any good at all?

____________________________

---

[Last edited by eb0ny at 04-02-2009 02:08 PM]

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1064
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

The cutscenes are pretty good. They tell the story, flow well, and don't mess up. Liked the twist for the middle ending.

You know what? we should do this again sometime. It was quite fun.

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1304
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

I agree with that statement entirely. It would be good to have even more people, though.

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

Finally some replies. Yay!

The concept of the game seemed to be a success, so I too think that it should have a continuation. I am unsure if I will be able to be the next GM though, as there's (mostly) exam preparations, BOI, me playing with Arch Linux, other real life stuff. Nuntar had intentions of organizing the next round, so now we just have to ask him nicely

____________________________

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged

If my Viking Secret Wildcard Poker game fizzles, I might start administrating something similar to this... but more like the inspiration for it that I provided.

The Infinite Hold Project. You reach an empty room, you make a room to fit there and send it to me along with a verification code, and I put it in and re-upload the hold. This continues until you can't go any further due to DROD limitations... then the room gets an exit stair in it that leads to another level, and so on until the hold couldn't possibly get any larger. Then I have the Hold Administrators look at it.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

---

[Last edited by Sillyman at 04-17-2009 06:00 PM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1304
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

Ooh. That looks fun. That also looks like it would get very big, very fast.

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged

I'm thinking of trying it out ... rules draft:

No two rooms by the same architect can be closer than 2 traversable spaces away (that is, they cannot connect or stem from the same room).

You may not leave a room or group of rooms unaccessible. I will mark rooms Secret such that the minimum number of Secret Rooms are present to make mastery require conquering all rooms, but the contributors don't have to worry about that.

Mark your contributions Anyone Edit. Posting them in the thread is fine.

If and when we reach the edge CORNER of the world, you shall be required to put one level exit in your room. It shall be marked secret, and the stairs shall lead to the next level, at the center. If and when we reach Lowest Point, I'm going to go insane and possibly make a second HOLD, which shall use a password system to verify you have cleared (or possibly mastered) the last. Also, by then Second Sky will have been released. Thus shall I guarantee the Infinite Hold Project will not be limited by size constraints within the lifetime of the universe.

If everything looks nice I'm gonna start a thread in Forum Games. Also, should I use TCB or TT?

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

---

[Last edited by Sillyman at 04-20-2009 07:09 AM]

reyll3
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 33
Registered: 01-01-2007
IP: Logged

Hmmm... In the first level theres a ATK gem thats pretty pointless. you would need two green keys to get there :/

is this intended?

____________________________
A cat

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
IP: Logged

reyll3 wrote:
Hmmm... In the first level theres a ATK gem thats pretty pointless. you would need two green keys to get there :/

is this intended?

I should have made yellow door instead of green there...

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

I'm sorry that it came to this, but as some of you might be aware by now, there's a major problem in the recent promotion of Hold Anonymous.

Nuntar's room in Fourth Level: 1N2W contains a script that generates power up items when an orb is struck. It is only disabled when the monster guarding the cache is killed or one of two walls is broken using a Pickaxe, allowing the player to get at the items and finalise their choice.

However, there exists a method in the hold that allow the player to generate and collect infinite amounts of items. This allows them to get, essentially, an infinite score for almost half the scorepoints in the hold.

Before the HAs will consider allowing an update, they need to know if the architects want it fixed. This isn't a guarantee that one will be allowed though, but some feedback is required.

If anything changes, I'll update this thread.

---

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 08-29-2009 12:17 AM]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4592
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

Oh.

In my defence, I have to say that I had not been told about this, nor did I know that this hold was being promoted.

To be honest, I'm very uneasy about the whole procedure. In order for the game to proceed, the hold had to be posted on the forum at each stage; and when you post an attachment, you have to choose an option from the menu of licenses. We've been going with "Public Domain" on a "none of the other options apply, so let's stick with the default" basis (in both games, this one and the one I'm currently running) but most of the individual contributions were never posted in the forum, and therefore, presumably, the organiser/compiler does not strictly have any legal right to do this. Obviously, in drawing attention to this I'm not intending to say anything against eb0ny; anything he's guilty of, I'm guilty of the same. I'm sure (at least, I hope) everyone playing in both games has felt that keeping the game running smoothly was more important than making sure their rights to a very small piece of creative work were preserved. But where there is a problem is when it comes to deciding whether eb0ny has the right to go ahead and promote the hold without seeking permission from the collaborators, and, if not, whether this consideration means that normal HA procedure should be revised to allow for this exceptional case (especially considering that a similar controversy may arise again if the current game comes to completion). I also don't know whether anything similar to this has been the cause of controversy in the past; the only similar case I can think of is with contest compilation holds, and I seem to remember that with those, it has been the usual procedure for everyone's permission to be sought before their work could be used in a promoted hold.

As for what to do now, of course I hope it will be fixed, but I have to say it would be easier if you could be more specific about what the problem is. I'm shocked, to be honest, that TFMurphy could say "as some of you might be aware by now" -- I don't know how long the problem has been known about for, but I've had no messages about it. Not one.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

---

[Last edited by Nuntar at 08-29-2009 02:07 AM]

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

Nuntar wrote:
As for what to do now, of course I hope it will be fixed, but I have to say it would be easier if you could be more specific about what the problem is. I'm shocked, to be honest, that TFMurphy could say "as some of you might be aware by now" -- I don't know how long the problem has been known about for, but no messages concerning it have so far appeared in my inbox.

"Might be aware by now" refers to the approximately quarter of an hour it took me to draft a post for this thread after making a post on the RPG Holds board announcing there was a problem (which was posted about an hour after *I* knew there was a problem). You haven't missed much of anything.

As for the specific nature of the problem... it's Accessory Abuse again, I'm afraid. The Invisibility Potion on the Fifth Level means that the player can enter the chamber without ever 'opening' a route.

I've only sent a PM to eb0ny directing him to this thread since the hold editing rights (and access to the complete hold file itself) are in his name, and I wasn't certain about how entirely this would have to be handled. If I should've PMed all involved architects, then I apologise for that.

I'm not sure what agreements or discussion has gone on with regards to what to do with the finished hold and what eb0ny was permitted to do. Personally, I'd assumed that all that had been sorted out prior to submission. Perhaps that was a bad assumption on my part. I really hope it isn't a problem -- it's a good hold, and we don't have many RPG Holds ready for the Holds board.

---

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 08-29-2009 02:42 AM]

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

Nuntar wrote:
But where there is a problem is when it comes to deciding whether eb0ny has the right to go ahead and promote the hold without seeking permission from the collaborators, and, if not, whether this consideration means that normal HA procedure should be revised to allow for this exceptional case (especially considering that a similar controversy may arise again if the current game comes to completion).

Yes, I am guilty of this. I am sorry for not notifying all the architects about promotion and not asking their permission. But what done is done. To prevent cases like this in the future, I propose the following:

Whenever a game like Hold Anonymous is held, its rules should explicitly state that all participants must agree to hold's promotion and allow the game master to introduce small changes to hold's rooms (with the notification of the original architect), as long as all the original architects are given the credit for their work. This should prevent all the legal controversies like this one (you might want to change wording, though).

As far as the hold goes, I believe that there should be an exception made on the ground that Architects and HAs are still unaware of all the existing game-breaking exploits. We are still learning all the caveats DROD RPG and we should forgive each other the mistakes made in the process of learning. Plus, it would be a shame to waste this hold.

And as for the fix, Nuntar, I need your permission to introduce a fix to your room. If you do not allow me to, then you should add a fix yourself and send me the room (my proposition would remove problems like this one).

____________________________

---

[Last edited by eb0ny at 08-29-2009 08:26 AM]

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

File: Hold Anonymous.drh (50.7 KB)
Downloaded 52 times.
License: Public Domain

Okay, the fix is ready. Are there any news regarding a possible replacement of the hold in the holds board?

____________________________

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

Thank you for posting a fixed version.

It looks very much like an update will be allowed, but it may take a bit more time for it to be completely looked at by the HAs and finally uploaded to CaravelNet. I don't foresee any problems, but if anything more is required, we'll let you know.

Thanks again!

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

____________________________

eb0ny
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 484
Registered: 09-12-2007
IP: Logged

Any news with the fix yet?

EDIT: Yup, fixed.

____________________________

---

[Last edited by eb0ny at 09-09-2009 03:18 PM]