Jason
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Ezlo wrote:
This is one of those topics we need an arbiter for.

I agree. Guys, I really don't want this to become another of 'those threads'. People have different points of view, (I'm not planning on revealing mine) and sometimes nothing anybody can do will change their minds. So stop. At least until an arbiter is elected.

____________________________
Play my holds?

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1227
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

Blondbeard, I don't quite get you. People are posting what they believe and you respond with:

Blondbeard wrote:
Please! If you are going to say something try to not say thing that are false as if you were certain they where true.

Its how THEY see things, how can they know it's false? They're not deliberately going around posting falsities to confuse people. Right? Same with DiMono, he's not posting "misleading" and "irrelevant" information, he's posting the facts and opinions that back up his side of the story. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong to you, he is sharing what is "right" to him. So why are acting as if they are deliberately spreading lies?

____________________________
Call me Citrus.

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Agree with Ezlo. I was on your side, beardie, but when I saw that, I started giving you less credit.

Hey, only three sentences in this post! Woohoo! Erm, now make that 5. Oh, darn . . .

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

---

[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-25-2007 08:10 PM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Okay. Sorry! It's just that what hartleyhair says isn't true. It's a fact. It isn't true! Yet he says it as if it is something he is certain of.

Meh! I Am very, very, very sorry if I actually drive people into not believing in a man influenced global warming. In that case I have done something I consider to be terribly bad.

But once again: The green house effect is a fact, and earth isn't the only planet that has a greenhouse effect. I also admit that I got a bit irritated when hartleyhair talked about me "conveniently forgetting the second part of his post". And take a look at how he expresses himself: "Might I remind everyone that there is as yet absolutely no proof as to the actual existence of Climate Change?". This is false!

What I don't like is the way he says it, not that he says it. If he had said "As far as I know there is as yet absolutely no proof as to the actual existence of Climate Change". I would have found it okay, but he didn't. Frankly I find the way hartleyhair said that to be a bit arrogant.

But! Please feel free to hate me, please feel free to say that I'm a horrible person. But please, please do not let the fact that you think I'm an idiot drive you to believe that man influenced global warming is a myth! Your personal feelings for me are irrelevent. Man influenced global warming is happening, or not, regardless of what you feel about me.

---

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 08-25-2007 10:12 PM]

hartleyhair
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 307
Registered: 08-05-2007
IP: Logged

Right, I'm pulling out of this debate. Finite. I'm not going to bother arguing; it's fairly clear nobody who's posted is actually going to change their side, so I feel it's fairly pointless.


____________________________
I'm currently working on Jerrik's Dungeon, an oldschool Hold for TCB.

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

At this point, all I have to say, is that global warming is clearly real, clearly manmade, and clearly caused by the heat generated by internet flamewars (which oddly enough, generate no light whatsoever.)

Also: h1713r, 90d\/\/1n.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

More than half of analyzed weather stations don't meet Federal guidelines

The preliminary results show Watts and his volunteers have surveyed about a quarter of the 1,221 stations making up the U.S. Historical Climatology Network. Of those, more than half appear to fall short of federal guidelines for optimum placement.

Some examples include weather stations placed near sewage treatment plants, parking lots, and near cars, buildings and air-conditioners — all artificial heat sources which could affect temperature records.

Watts said independent verification of information is part of the scientific process. He acknowledges the different methods of recording temperatures all show warming, but he wants to know the cause.

While many believe humans are leading contributors to global warming, Watts has theorized the sun may play a bigger role. He said the data deserves a second look, especially because of the large amount of money involved.

"If I'm proven wrong, so be it -- that's the way of science," Watts said.

Less Than Half of all Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory (emphasis in the following quotation is not mine)

Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no "consensus."

The figures are even more shocking when one remembers the watered-down definition of consensus here. Not only does it not require supporting that man is the "primary" cause of warming, but it doesn't require any belief or support for "catastrophic" global warming. In fact of all papers published in this period (2004 to February 2007), only a single one makes any reference to climate change leading to catastrophic results.

These changing viewpoints represent the advances in climate science over the past decade. While today we are even more certain the earth is warming, we are less certain about the root causes. More importantly, research has shown us that -- whatever the cause may be -- the amount of warming is unlikely to cause any great calamity for mankind or the planet itself.

These are both from within the last two days. Can I stop now?

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5419
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:
Can I stop now?

Please.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
This makes me angry, beacuse once again you take on the role as an expert without knowing anything about the subject. You sound quite ignorant at least.

It's kind of scary that you do this sometimes. The soil of the rainforests are NOT imideatly teleported away once the forest is gone. It will erode away with time due to rains and winds, but for a short time you can actually farm in the soil which will soon be gone.

My source is as good as first-hand; I got that information from my boss, who worked in the rainforests for people who tried to grow things in deforested areas. He said they would plant vegetation, and when they went back weeks later 90% of it was washed away due to the poor quality of the soil. He saw it with his own eyes.

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged

Someone should put that latter one on /..

silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:
This makes me angry, beacuse once again you take on the role as an expert without knowing anything about the subject. You sound quite ignorant at least.

It's kind of scary that you do this sometimes. The soil of the rainforests are NOT imideatly teleported away once the forest is gone. It will erode away with time due to rains and winds, but for a short time you can actually farm in the soil which will soon be gone.

My source is as good as first-hand; I got that information from my boss, who worked in the rainforests for people who tried to grow things in deforested areas. He said they would plant vegetation, and when they went back weeks later 90% of it was washed away due to the poor quality of the soil. He saw it with his own eyes.

the soil erodes quickly, and even before it erodes, it's just sucky soil - rain forests are very efficient and recyclers and hold most of their own nutrients in the system. in effect, they are a biome which can actually cultivate which should by all rights be desert.

so when you try to raise normal crops in it, crops used to rich soil, you can only get a little useful farming before you have to move on and clear MORE rain forest.

Al Gore addressed this in Earth in the Balance, saying that he felt that the way we value nations was going to keep this trend going: we only 'count' cultivated land as having value, even when the _real_ value is probably greater if the land is left in state. but Brazil (for example) allows the removal of rain forest and replacement with crap-farms that expire in short order because they actually get a higher land use rating for it.


____________________________

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:
My source is as good as first-hand; I got that information from my boss, who worked in the rainforests for people who tried to grow things in deforested areas. He said they would plant vegetation, and when they went back weeks later 90% of it was washed away due to the poor quality of the soil. He saw it with his own eyes.

Well, my source is first-hand. I used to live in a place that had lots of vegetation, until some person decided to make it all flat dirt ground. Nowadays, every summer the town is so full of water that you need to wear boots to walk around.

It's probably the first thing that's being taught in geography classes here. The only thing you can (and should) plant on a eroded soil is (some specific kind of) grass. It will keep the soil and the water in place. Then, wait, until the soil is rich again.

____________________________
The best way to lose customers is to let little kids running loose on a forum with too many mod points.

kie
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 221
Registered: 02-26-2005
IP: Logged

silver wrote:
... and replacement with crap-farms that expire in short order because they actually get a higher land use rating for it.

Was that intentional, silver?

____________________________
cheers, kie

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Tim wrote:
The only thing you can (and should) plant on a eroded soil is (some specific kind of) grass. It will keep the soil and the water in place. Then, wait, until the soil is rich again.

Do you happen to know which type of grass this is? My parents' cottage has mostly sand in the yard facing the lake because the previous owners were morons, and it looks very unfriendly and scraggly. Knowing what type of grass to plant would be extremely useful.

Edit: I just went through and +modded almost every post in the first two pages, and one on the third, because despite disagreement (or maybe due to it) I value highly spirited debate. I also found a minor site bug while I was at it.

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

---

[Last edited by DiMono at 09-04-2007 01:59 PM]

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:
Do you happen to know which type of grass this is? My parents' cottage has mostly sand in the yard facing the lake because the previous owners were morons, and it looks very unfriendly and scraggly. Knowing what type of grass to plant would be extremely useful.

I was trying to looking in Wiki to find the stuff I was thinking of, but I see now that this is something locally available in Europe, and is more used to create land by holding onto sand: Marram.
However, I've also looked further into Wiki and found this very interesting section called Erosion Control (a must read for your parents), and my suggestion would be to read about the Cover Crops:

from Wikipedia:
Cover crops known as “green manures” are grown and incorporated (by tillage) into the soil before reaching full maturity, and are intended to improve soil fertility and quality. They are commonly leguminous, meaning they are part of the fabaceae (pea) family. This family is unique in that all of the species in it set pods, such as bean, lentil, lupins and alfalfa. Leguminous cover crops are typically high in nitrogen and can often, to varying degrees, provide the required quantity of nitrogen for crop production that might normally be applied in chemical fertilizer form (called fertilizer replacement value) (Thiessen-Martens et al. 2005).

Disclaimer: I don't know your parents situation, so you need to decide what exactly the problem is that you want to solve. And second, you need to remember that bringing a new specie to an existing ecosystem is dangerous, even if it's not GM, so try to use a locally common specimen if possible.

Note: I'm a complete noob on this subject, so I can be wrong.

____________________________
The best way to lose customers is to let little kids running loose on a forum with too many mod points.

---

[Last edited by Tim at 09-04-2007 08:36 PM]

zonhin
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 99
Registered: 10-18-2005
IP: Logged

Can this become a spam thread now?

I'll start.

____________________________
I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Yes, let's kill this discussion and start spam.
But you didn't start much spam, so...

And now, our Feature (SPAM) Presentation

The Unoriginal Post with Every Smiley: Deadly Smilies of Death!
Closed-Captioning sponsored by SPAM meats. Insert SPAM slogan here.



And the grand finish:
By the complete definition of spam, you will see a very repetitive image.
PREPARE YOURSELVES!

No, really, prepare yourselves.

Awaiting user input of <Big sigh>


And stay tuned for the sequel, which is actually a prequel: The Smilies Before The Recent Update. However, the prequel is only 20% as large as this version, for obvious reasons!
That was some laaaarge update

Oh ya, by the way, if you'll notice above, many things don't show up correctly. I mean, I can explain "", but some are just plain weird.

AHEM!
Now it's a spam thread.

SHAZZAM!
BAJABBERS!
NARF!
WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!
i am
no ur not
yes i am
no ur not
okay im not

Carry on.


____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

---

[Last edited by Kwakstur at 09-06-2007 05:22 AM : Stupid speling]

hartleyhair
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 307
Registered: 08-05-2007
IP: Logged

I second that, Kwakstur, with a ridiculously oversized but prettily coloured


Agreed.

____________________________
I'm currently working on Jerrik's Dungeon, an oldschool Hold for TCB.

aztcg7
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 104
Registered: 03-08-2005
IP: Logged

wow. That was dramatic. Earlier Kwaksturs insano spam thread was +2. Now it's minus 2. That's horrible! It totally deserves to be kudo'ed considering the amount of time it must have taken.

____________________________
In other news, is a considerably more stylish way to express sarcasm than , because everybody uses and I am /indie/. INDIE, I TELL YOU.

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

aztcg7 wrote:
wow. That was dramatic. Earlier Kwaksturs insano spam thread was +2. Now it's minus 2. That's horrible! It totally deserves to be kudo'ed considering the amount of time it must have taken.

When was it ever +2? As far as I know, it became -2 no more than 90 seconds after I posted it.

Quite frankly, I think I deserved the -2. It was totally uncalled for in this serious conversation. And, quite frankly, you may not understand me saying this, but I probably shouldn't have been posting at all last night. My thoughts were messed up, and this morning, I was really groggy - the "I don't care if I accidentally run into a wall" kind of groggy.
Or as my sister calls it, the "what the heck was with you this morning? You were purposely running into walls!"
I'll give her credit. I mean, there's barely a difference between "letting yourself do something" and "doing it on purpose".

So, yeah. I would rather us not mention any posts I made past 8 p.m. last night. As far as you should be concerned, I was acting drunk. I wasn't really drunk, but, you know...

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

aztcg7
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 104
Registered: 03-08-2005
IP: Logged

I'm sure that I saw the 2. It's entirely possible I thought it was plus, for no reason, as compared to minus, which it could have actually been. so...Feel free to disregard my crazy.

____________________________
In other news, is a considerably more stylish way to express sarcasm than , because everybody uses and I am /indie/. INDIE, I TELL YOU.