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Briareos
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quote:
mrimer wrote:
Well...well...TCB beat DNF to release. So there!

Am I the only one always parsing "DNF" as "Did Not Finish"?

np: Radiohead - Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box (Amnesiac)

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04-17-2007 at 10:07 PM
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Banjooie
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I don't think it's worth correcting you on that one.
04-17-2007 at 10:27 PM
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Blondbeard
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OkayÖ I have decided to write something about what I thought about TCB. First of all: Excellent, excellent story. It had depth, and this is the first DROD story which actually had me laughing. However the puzzles werenít really my cup of tea. I would rate the puzzles of TCB a seven for overall enjoyment. I will here try to give feedback on why I felt like this. I will often speak in absolute terms, but I state up here that all I say is my personal opinions, which obviously (from other feedback I have read) isnít very representative.


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04-24-2007 at 02:56 PM
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NiroZ
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quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Interlude: Negotiations:

I donít know what to say about these rooms, except that they where boring when I played them. That is because I didnít understand how Fedungos worked until quite recently.
What I really wish was that the room highlighting it at the start would really emphasise that it was moving in the direction faced, not the direction moved! Yes, it is displayed but most people (and myself) have missed because it was far to subtle.

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04-24-2007 at 03:26 PM
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Blondbeard
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quote:
NiroZ wrote:
quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
Interlude: Negotiations:

I donít know what to say about these rooms, except that they where boring when I played them. That is because I didnít understand how Fedungos worked until quite recently.
What I really wish was that the room highlighting it at the start would really emphasise that it was moving in the direction faced, not the direction moved! Yes, it is displayed but most people (and myself) have missed because it was far to subtle.


That is exactly what I missed. I didn't get this until I tried to master the hold. I later realized that the fegundo moved in the direction the sword pointed, and that it was good enough to bump into a wall, but I never realised that it was the direction you faced that mattered until I tried to solve the secret room in
Click here to view the secret text
where you couldn't bump into any walls.

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04-24-2007 at 03:39 PM
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NiroZ
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Blondbeard wrote:
That is exactly what I missed.
Everyone I have talked to with the exception of the admins has missed it.

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04-24-2007 at 03:59 PM
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eytanz
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I missed it in my first playthrough. Which is why I added the room with the negotiator who kills himself, but clearly that was too subtle to be effective.

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04-24-2007 at 04:17 PM
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Doom
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I think there are a few small issues in that room that make it harder to learn from the scene.

For one, the sequence of moves is definitely too short. It's over before you realise what happened. Not only that, but the length makes the connection between the character and the fegundoes also harder to see. Use of only 2 directions adds slightly to this effect as well.

I actually thought the birds were a purely scripted defense system with no reference to game mechanics at all when I passed that room for the first time.
04-24-2007 at 04:52 PM
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eytanz
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Yeah, I know... It was one of those things that I created, thought to myself "this needs improving, I'll get to it later", then by the time I remembered it was too late to make big changes.

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04-24-2007 at 05:20 PM
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Tahnan
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quote:
NiroZ wrote:
quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
That is exactly what I missed.
Everyone I have talked to with the exception of the admins has missed it.
*hand* I got it. I think I must have gotten it, since my only recorded demo in the next room has me bumping into walls; so if I didn't get it from the "Negotiator kills herself" room, I got it pretty quickly once I started manipulating them. (But I remember figuring it out. I mean, the player-negotiator says, "I wouldn't face that way".)

Incidentally, Blondbeard's tastes clearly vary pretty significantly from mine. I didn't mind the things he calls tedious or repetitive. To take a room at random: in HA:4N1E, maybe you don't "need" all four of those doors purely for the sake of puzzling, but you need them for symmetry; and only maneuvering mirrors to one or two doors would have felt kind of empty to me. (In other rooms--say, HA:4N--when he says that half of the room could have been skipped, I disagree; I think it made for interesting variations-on-a-theme.)

So: opinions'll always differ. At least we agree about builders. :-)
04-24-2007 at 06:32 PM
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Oneiromancer
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quote:
Tahnan wrote:
but you need them for symmetry

I do love me some symmetry, I must admit. And not just in room layout, but also in level layout. QFK, HA, MO (before some extra rooms were added), EC, AC, TC (again before the extra rooms were added), PH, FD (the stalwart section), AF--very symmetrical. RD wasn't because it was meant to be somewhat linear, and HV was a hodge-podge of rooms from many different levels so it lost its symmetry.

I think it's one reason why I enjoyed making The Consequence so much, I forced myself to break my own habits and become unsymmetrical.

Game on,

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04-24-2007 at 10:41 PM
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schep
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I went through the fegundo "intro demo" room, thought "Wait, I missed something, what did she say?", and restored to watch it over again. Then I pretty much instantly figured out how fegundos work given the chance to play with them. So I got it, but I almost missed it.
04-24-2007 at 11:28 PM
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zex20913
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I figured out Fegundo movement in the second room where you control Fegundos. I too thought they moved like mimics, and then I accidentally hit 5 and it kept moving. It was an "Aha!" moment.

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04-25-2007 at 05:16 AM
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jbluestein
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I'm late to the party here (and I'm not even done with TCB yet), but I'm playing through the level known as 'AF' right now...and I have to say that I'm totally digging it, even the previously vilified 2S.

In looking at the author, I guess I'm not that surprised to see that it's Oneiromancer, whose rooms I have always generally liked.

Josh

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05-01-2007 at 06:38 PM
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Sillyman
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quote:
NiroZ wrote:
quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
That is exactly what I missed.
Everyone I have talked to with the exception of the admins has missed it.

Not me! But I looked at the editor before reaching that point. Also, Blondbeard, what do you have against repetitive/easy rooms? I like them. They encourage me, make me want to spend at least 5 minutes trying to figure stuff out myself when I get to the tough/intermediate rooms. :lol

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05-02-2007 at 06:41 AM
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Blondbeard
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Hmm... I guess what I don't like is to do things I feel is trivial but also time-consuming. It's rather obvious that I'm not like everybody else in this. Please feel free to view me as a slightly crazy oddball :D

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05-02-2007 at 08:32 AM
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zex20913
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Done and done.

We're becoming an increasingly difficult-to-please community. We've got high-level optimisers (michthro if he comes back, Syntax, Rabs, Dolan, and zakku) that we want to satisfy, as well as bringing new people into the game. I may enjoy a room that a total noob can't solve--a total noob may enjoy a room that I find trivial. Then there are people who hate certain rooms, like Banjooie and serpent timing, and (in general, IIRC) eytanz and tarstuff. Also, there are disputes among us as to how the game is played, of which we all know at least one.

In this regard, Caravel gets an A+, as they manage to satisfy everyone, most of the time.

Or it could be that DROD is just the best game ever, and they haven't destroyed its gameplay yet. Either way.

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05-02-2007 at 12:41 PM
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eytanz
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quote:
zex20913 wrote:
Then there are people who hate certain rooms, like Banjooie and serpent timing, and (in general, IIRC) eytanz and tarstuff.


You're not recalling correctly - I like tarstuff. Always did, even back in the AE days when it was the most hated element. The correct phrase should be: " like Banjooie and serpent timing, and eytanz and serpent timing too."

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05-02-2007 at 12:56 PM
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Jatopian
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Adam (Alefbet) doesn't seem to always use the 1-puzzle-per-room paradigm. I noticed this sometimes in Oremite Breeding Grounds.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 06-01-2007 04:30 AM : bad bad grammar mistakes]
05-02-2007 at 11:21 PM
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AlefBet
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Jatopian wrote:
Adam (Alefbet) doesn't seem always seem to use the whole 1-puzzle-per-room paradigm. I noticed this sometimes in Oremite Breeding Grounds.
That's true. I sometimes put two smaller (usually related) puzzles in a single room, or sometimes have two puzzles with the potential to interact with each other.

What do you think of this practice? Is one puzzle per room a rule I ought to be following more?

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05-02-2007 at 11:26 PM
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larrymurk
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quote:
AlefBet wrote:
quote:
Jatopian wrote:
Adam (Alefbet) doesn't seem always seem to use the whole 1-puzzle-per-room paradigm. I noticed this sometimes in Oremite Breeding Grounds.
That's true. I sometimes put two smaller (usually related) puzzles in a single room, or sometimes have two puzzles with the potential to interact with each other.

What do you think of this practice? Is one puzzle per room a rule I ought to be following more?


Zis should be no problem. Ve'll have Doctor Vizhago give Adam a little Shock Therapy and he'll make rooms like everyone else. Now be a good boy Adam and let the nice Doctor hook you up to the shockometer..
05-02-2007 at 11:34 PM
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Ezlo
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I like rooms with more than one puzzle in them. I wish people made more of them. But I think I'm in the minority.
05-02-2007 at 11:41 PM
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Jatopian
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quote:
AlefBet wrote:
I sometimes put two smaller (usually related) puzzles in a single room, or sometimes have two puzzles with the potential to interact with each other.

What do you think of this practice? Is one puzzle per room a rule I ought to be following more?
Well, I personally like to be able to quit a puzzle that I'm stuck on and do another, but I can't without losing progress if I'm stuck partway through a multi-part room. OBG:2S is an example of this.
Puzzles with the potential to interact with each other tend to count as one in my estimation though.
Also I don't mean to single you out - you're not the only one - that was just a difficult level, often in a positive way.

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05-02-2007 at 11:55 PM
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coppro
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The thing about having two puzzles in a room is that multiple puzzles can be difficult to do. If they're completely disconnected, then players may get frustrated because they cannot complete one half of the puzzle without being forced to redo or complete the second half. TCB scripting offers ways around this, though. If they are not completely unrelated, then care must be taken to make sure that the interaction does not feel tacked-on, and then it may feel like one big puzzle with smaller steps.
05-02-2007 at 11:57 PM
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eytanz
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I agree with the basic gist of Jatopian and coppro - I'm not a huge fan of multiple puzzles within a room, unless they somehow interact with each other - either directly (say, using one puzzle as a constraint on the other, so, for example, you can't use the trivial solution for puzzle 1 without making puzzle 2 unsolvable), or indirectly by having the puzzles be some sort of logical progression so that each builds on the solution of the other. If you can do either puzzle in either order without affecting each other, they might as well be split into different rooms.

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05-03-2007 at 04:34 AM
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Yellow_Mage
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quote:
jbluestein wrote:
I'm late to the party here (and I'm not even done with TCB yet), but I'm playing through the level known as 'AF' right now...and I have to say that I'm totally digging it, even the previously vilified 2S.

In looking at the author, I guess I'm not that surprised to see that it's Oneiromancer, whose rooms I have always generally liked.

Josh


OH ya, that reminds me...

quote:
Tahnan wrote:
quote:
Yellow_Mage wrote:
I have no hate for any rooms... those that are saying they hate XXXX room send them over to me, ok?

Yes well get to AF: 2S and tell me that again. I won't say I hate it, so Yellow Mage won't come after me, but I will say that I'll be quite pleased never to have to play that again.


Oddly enough I found the original room found past yonder master wall to be easier than that room AF:2S, but that room wasn't bad at all. Maybe because I was riding two platforms, yarr... You can hate it, I actually found a room I didn't really like; UL:1S1W. It wasn't really nice. first it was hard, then it was cheap, then it was boring when you figure it out.

I wish I had a replay of AF:2N. That would of been the most laughable replay if it saved properly as I did that room in a really crazy way, "You aren't suppose to keep the door open and let the Gel grow everywhere!!!" How I managed to complete the room from that situation, it was a rather godlike solution I may boast, but I got myself into that situation in the first place. :blush

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05-03-2007 at 07:52 AM
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Tahnan
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Tahnan wrote:
Yes well get to AF: 2S and tell me that again. I won't say I hate it, so Yellow Mage won't come after me, but I will say that I'll be quite pleased never to have to play that again.
Of course, ironically, I did play it again once vittro posted a challenge explaining how to do it without suffering. Go figure.
05-03-2007 at 04:40 PM
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coppro
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Note: Just to clarify, I'm only against independent puzzles in the same room in that they are grouped for room clearing. The shrewd architect can work around this by using two scripted sections, and using a conquer token - but this would mess up high-score demos by a fair bit.
05-03-2007 at 08:31 PM
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mrimer
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quote:
Yellow_Mage wrote:
I actually found a room I didn't really like; UL:1S1W. It wasn't really nice. first it was hard, then it was cheap, then it was boring when you figure it out.
Just in case it isn't clear to everyone, you aren't supposed to
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05-05-2007 at 06:06 PM
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stigant
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Lots of spoilers ahead. If you haven't found/beaten all the secret rooms in JtRH and TCB, you might want to skip this post. I'm just going to put everything in one big secret tag because there's too many spoilers to do each individually.
Click here to view the secret text


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05-08-2007 at 03:13 AM
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