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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : The other sniping poll (A multiple question poll)
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What should the #1 demo reflect?
The best possible solution to the room
The best application of concepts anyone has created for the room (for finding the best solution)
Both, if possible
Something else
I abstain
If you picked both, which of the two is more important, should they conflict with each other?
The best possible solution to the room.
The best application of concepts anyone has created for the room (for finding the best solution)
Neither/I don't care
I picked something entirely different.
I abstain.
If someone really cares about #1 scores, and they get a flawed #1...
...they will work on the room to get it just right before doing anything else.
...they will work on it a bit, but not necessarily inspect every detail before moving on.
...they will move on, because "hey, I got an untied #1, what more do I need to do?"
...they will do something else not mentioned here.
...they will abstain from answering this question.
What do you think of sniping?
It is good because it takes the best solutions and makes them better.
It is good because it encourages people to work on their demos if they want to keep their high score
It is good because it encourages competition.
It is bad because the sniper is stealing the results of someone else's effort.
It is bad because if you miss a flaw you won't get a chance to see/fix it without losing your place.
It is bad because there's no easy way to keep demos from being uploaded until they're really done.
I like sniping.
I don't like sniping.
I'm torn/I both like and dislike it.
I don't care.
I have a completely incompatible opinion with these other options.
I abstain.
If you saw a #1 video made over a year ago and noticed a very simple way to save moves, you would...
...PM this person and tell them how to fix it so they can maintain their position.
...go through the room using their solution, minus the mistake.
...try to find an even better solution, or a different one that works just as well.
...consider ways to possibly improve it besides what you saw, and if you find nothing else move on.
...decide the ethical dilemma was not worth it and move on to a different room.
...scoff at the fools who passed up such a simple opportunity and move on, chuckling to yourself.
...do something completely different.
...pass up this question for the next one.
If you saw a #1 made in the last few days with an obvious flaw, you would...
...PM this person so they could fix their mistake and keep their place.
...go through the room using their solution, minus the mistake.
...try to find an even better solution, or a different one that works just as well.
...consider ways to possibly improve it besides what you saw, and if you find nothing else move on.
...decide the ethical dilemma was not worth it and move on to a different room.
...scoff at the fools who passed up such a simple opportunity and move on, chuckling to yourself.
...do something completely different.
...pass up this question for the next one.
How do you feel about the week-long deadline for matching/beating a sniped score?
It's too long. Sniping is a legal tactic and this punishes it too much.
It's too short; some people go on vacation and such and won't get the email in time to fix the demo.
It's just right.
It's fine as long as my demos aren't made null and void by it.
The idea itself is flawed; the original system was better/this won't fix the problem.
I have another opinion not mentioned here.
No comment.
This poll was...
Good
Bad
Meh
Incomplete
Better than Maurog's [>_>;; sorry, I couldn't resist.. please don't hurt me]
None of the above.
Pressing Vote will vote for all of the questions. Make sure you have voted in each one!
Note: Viewing results forfeits your right to vote.
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Syntax
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icon Re: The other sniping poll (0)  
I love this idea. I believe stephen4louise mentioned earlier the following style of play: Solve, if didn't enjoy and happy with score then move on, if not happy with score then play again. If love the room and feel a trick is missed (or such things as the best entrance to use etc) then watch demo in accelerated to get a feel of the room then replay.

I play exactly like this. I'm pretty good at certain types of rooms such as hordes of wraithwings but hate them. I probably would not watch the #1 as I'm not interested enough. Certain rooms tho (mostly lyncpin ones relying on alternative entrances) fascinate me. In the case where I know I've optimised my solution to a good degree and end up 18th is when I realise there's a trick to solving it. That's usually when I would download the #1. Most of the time it's only to see the entrance used. At other times, the general order. I've never watched in order to copy (ethically, does this still make me a sniper?). I'll use Korvak's Keep as an example. I optimised the first monster room yet kept equalling the #1. After over an hour I couldn't work out where these had been saved. I therefore downloaded the #1 and watched the first 5% of it in accelerated play. That was enough to realise there was another technique. I improved on this and got a #1 outright. I believe this was fair. If I get more than an hour a day to play DROD, it would be a lucky day. I just don't have the time sometimes to test out every start and given the same beginning, I think a #1 is still as deserving.

Anyways

I think Beef Row's idea is great. Lynchpins are rooms I won't want to download #1s for and be a sniper for. It's those long hack and slash rooms where I just don't have the time to work out the better start. In these case, having watched the general idea behind the room is when I will then optimise and beat it. Korvak's is a good example of this happening. Unfortunately, because I watched a demo, it since got equalled and I lost my #1 even though I didn't use that demo for anything other than getting insight without spending ages trying each branch. As an indicator, I think demo downloading should not be classified as sniping.

But yeah... back on topic again. If you download a demo and improve on it then get credit for it. Otherwise get punished. I second Beef Row's idea.
03-01-2007 at 12:36 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: The other sniping poll (+3)  
Beef Row wrote:
My thought is this. If you download a demo from any given room, you can no longer submit a new demo unless it has fewer [moves] than the shortest demo you downloaded. So if you took 125 moves to do a room, then downloaded a 60 move demo, unless you can make a 59 move demo, you can't improve your rank.

That's kind of intriguing, isn't it. Of course, it doesn't help with the cases of "I just got a #1; let me check demos with more moves than mine to see if there's a trick or two I can learn from them." Which isn't sniping, it's just...oh, hell, I think I've utterly lost track of what we're actually trying to fix here.

No, wait, not track. Interest. Utterly lost interest. Carry on.
03-01-2007 at 02:35 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: The other sniping poll (0)  
michthro wrote:
Jatopian wrote:
You cannot patent DROD solutions, any more than you can patent strategies for winning at chess. If I went up to the US Patent Office and said I'd like to patent a way of winning a chess game in 4 moves, they might laugh or sigh, but I wouldn't get my patent. And like a chess game, you can't use the strategy without revealing it.
That's a terrible analogy. The equivalent of a chess strategy would be general DROD techniques. You don't actually believe that anyone has anything against players learning techniques from some demos, and applying them in other rooms, do you?
On the contrary; each chess game starts the same way, and so does every attempt to beat a DROD room, barring multiple entrances.

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DROD architecture idea generator
03-01-2007 at 02:51 AM
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Syntax
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icon Re: The other sniping poll (0)  
Tahnan wrote:
No, wait, not track. Interest. Utterly lost interest. Carry on.
Excellent :D
03-01-2007 at 04:18 AM
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