coppro
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mrimer wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:
Puzzle potential, yes, but also tediousness potential. This snake may never trap itself where the sword can't reach it's head. In my experience this happens quite easily in many serpent/rattle snake rooms. I hope architects will use this adder in a good way

I'll say we've got a measure in place to mitigate the problems associated with this -- when the adder's head is trapped by its own body, it will shrink like a serpent.

But wouldn't that mean that you could have:
* Two adders trapped within each other, thus not dieing.
* An adder stuck in an inaccessible dead-end, thus not dieing.

mrimer
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coppro wrote:

mrimer wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:
Puzzle potential, yes, but also tediousness potential. This snake may never trap itself where the sword can't reach it's head. In my experience this happens quite easily in many serpent/rattle snake rooms. I hope architects will use this adder in a good way

I'll say we've got a measure in place to mitigate the problems associated with this -- when the adder's head is trapped by its own body, it will shrink like a serpent.

But wouldn't that mean that you could have:
* Two adders trapped within each other, thus not dieing.
* An adder stuck in an inaccessible dead-end, thus not dieing.

I'm not saying anything else until I call my lawyer.

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Blondbeard
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mrimer wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:
Puzzle potential, yes, but also tediousness potential. This snake may never trap itself where the sword can't reach it's head. In my experience this happens quite easily in many serpent/rattle snake rooms. I hope architects will use this adder in a good way

I'll say we've got a measure in place to mitigate the problems associated with this -- when the adder's head is trapped by its own body, it will shrink like a serpent.

That's good news

silver
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I've also been in a bunch of rooms where if you screw up, you can't get at the rattler's tail. part of the puzzle is avoding that.


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Tahnan
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coppro wrote:
But wouldn't that mean that you could have:
* Two adders trapped within each other, thus not dieing.
* An adder stuck in an inaccessible dead-end, thus not dieing.

You can also have a roach stuck in an inaccessible dead-end. (Or see silver's comment, just above.) As for the first worry, it's certainly possible that the code checks not "am I stuck within my own body?" but "am I surrounded by adder?".

Now here's a question for you: Imagine the following situation:

...........
P-..B..Aaaa
...........

Where P is Beethro, B is a brain, A is the adder (head capitalized, body lowercase), and a period is blank floor. The brain will direct the adder towards Beethro in the straightest line possible, but that line will involve the death of the brain. Does the brain have the survival skills to send an adder around itself?

Only time will tell.

Oneiromancer
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Right, there are hundreds and hundreds of ways of making rooms impossible with all of the current elements, and what can you really do to stop that? Even with red serpents, just don't provide a dead end or any way to trap the serpent, voila, unsolveable. Many fiendish puzzles were built around "But there's no way I can trap that serpe...OHHHHHH, you evil, evil architect." (Although usually realization does not come so quickly.)

I typed more, but I probably need to shut up now, so I don't get in trouble with Mike and Erik. Just remember..."fun" trumps "potential for abuse" almost every time...we have the Architecture board, the beta boards, and the hold rating system for those who use game elements in an un-fun way.

Game on,

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Znirk
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Tahnan wrote:
it's certainly possible that the code checks not "am I stuck within my own body?" but "am I surrounded by adder?".

In that case: if an adder bumps into another, does the bumper or the bumpee shrink?

Ah, the sweet scent of unbased speculation ...

schep
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Znirk wrote:
In that case: if an adder bumps into another, does the bumper or the bumpee shrink?

By bump, you mean get somewhere it can't turn a different direction, right? Anyway, this one's easy. Monster move order, just like red serpents.

Tahnan
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Znirk wrote:
In that case: if an adder bumps into another, does the bumper or the bumpee shrink?

Actually, you get a serpent queen. Because putting together enough adders gives you a multiplier.

NiroZ
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Znirk wrote:

Tahnan wrote:
it's certainly possible that the code checks not "am I stuck within my own body?" but "am I surrounded by adder?".

In that case: if an adder bumps into another, does the bumper or the bumpee shrink?

Ah, the sweet scent of unbased speculation ...

Depends on the movement order I would imagine (thus, which snake was created first would shrink first.)

MartianInvader
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Maybe the "Snakes!" contest had a basis in TCB, and the adders can jump over each other according to the same rules as the contest. (After all, the code for the snakepit could have been largely copied over.)

As for killing them, I would guess that they don't impale themselves on your sword, but since they move right after you you can't just kill them like you would kill a line of roaches. If you hit it's head when it's coming straight at you, it'll probably then turn to one side or the other for its move. I imagine this would make even just a simple whittling down of an adder pretty interesting (at least about as interesting as killing a non-trapped rattlesnake).

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[Last edited by MartianInvader at 01-17-2007 05:23 PM]

zex20913
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Of course, that brings up the question of adders in a narrow corridor. Would their heads survive on a sword (Beethro dies) or do they act like roaches and never get on (easy adder kill). Do they back up/jump? They are adders...jumping might make them grow. Crazy!

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Briareos
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Also, why just green ones? I want a black adder too...

np: Tarwater - All Of The Ants Left Paris (Animals, Suns & Atoms)

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zex20913
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You may have to wait for TCBTCB for that one. One color update per game max. (I'll probably be proven wrong with TCB, but that's okay, and I hope it's the case.)

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MartianInvader
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Well, heck. While we're in the realm of wild speculation let's do some more of it. If adders COULD jump, then...

Maybe an Adder is capable of jumping over your sword, so you wouldn't want to be caught in a 1-wide corridor with one?

Maybe the rules for what they can jump over are of interest, like perhaps they can leap over pits and snake bodies (if there's somewhere to leap to) but not over walls?

Maybe Adders grow longer when they jump? This could be really cool puzzle potential: making adders that can keep growing but you want to kill them quickly, having to get adders as big as you can for some reason, etc.

Serpents and Rattlesnakes have two behaviors, switching every 5 moves. Maybe Adders repeat BBBBBJJJJJ? That'd be interesting, particularly if they can jump over your sword...

Oneiro said that Adders will shrink like a serpent if the "head is trapped by its own body". Maybe that's a careful way of phrasing "if they have nowhere to jump to"?


Well, that's all the wild speculation about leapin' legless lizards that I can think up for now. I suppose you might point out that it's wild speculation to even think that Adders can jump at all, but it was fun to think about at least

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[Last edited by MartianInvader at 01-18-2007 12:44 AM]

AtkinsSJ
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Maurog wrote:

Oneiromancer wrote:
See Groobus. Groobus is Zamm’s big brother. Groobus is also a smiter. He carries a Really Big Sword. Smite, Groobus, Smite!

Fixed.

They don't call you smitemaster until you know how to cut your snake. Seriously.

Also, snakes aren't much good for restaurants. You can't cut your snake and eat it...

noma
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Just remember..."fun" trumps "potential for abuse" almost every time...,

And sometimes "abuse" has the "potential for fun!"

...sorry. Couldn't resist.

Looking forward to the adders. See adder eat. Eat adder eat. Isn't green adder pret--! Aaargh! gurgle...

Could we have a death gurgle?

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[Last edited by noma at 01-27-2007 06:49 PM]

Tahnan
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Could we have a death gurgle?

It does seem like that loud scream makes perfect sense for being munched to death by a roach or stabbed by a guard, but when Beethro is eaten by a snake, it ought to be much more muffled...

Jatopian
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Tahnan wrote:

Could we have a death gurgle?

It does seem like that loud scream makes perfect sense for being munched to death by a roach or stabbed by a guard, but when Beethro is eaten by a snake, it ought to be much more muffled...

Presumably the sound waves of his scream can travel faster than the serpent's mouth can close.

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