Scott
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When I said every room that was a bit inaccurate. I meant every room on level 6 but that was what you were asking about.

eytanz
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Ok, L7 2N 1W - please, move the checkpoint (the top one). I've spent over an hour playing this room, only to have all my progress lost because I inadvertently got trapped on the checkpoint between two serpents.

In general, in any room that's as time consuming and difficult as this one - don't put the checkpoint in a bottleneck. Put it somewhere that's safe to retreat to but also avoidable.

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eytanz
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As for Level 7, 2N - I have two problems with this room:



[Edited by eytanz on 12-12-2003 at 05:07 AM GMT]

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ClaytonW
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eytanz wrote:
Ok, L7 2N 1W - please, move the checkpoint (the top one). I've spent over an hour playing this room, only to have all my progress lost because I inadvertently got trapped on the checkpoint between two serpents.

ClaytonW
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eytanz wrote:
As for Level 7, 2N - I have two problems with this room:

First, I just removed all but 4 goblins. Easier, quicker. Having done that, I don't think a checkpoint is necessary. After you kill the monsters, the rest is simple. I don't see any particular point where a player would need to keep returning to when they die. Depending on how the player goes about killing the monsters, he'll end up in different spots. I can't (or don't want to) put checkpoints all over the place.

eytanz
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ClaytonW wrote:

eytanz wrote:
Ok, L7 2N 1W - please, move the checkpoint (the top one). I've spent over an hour playing this room, only to have all my progress lost because I inadvertently got trapped on the checkpoint between two serpents.

Click here to view the secret text

×...I don't think the checkpoint is the problem. You seem to be going about it the wrong way (or at least the more difficult way). The serpents shouldn't even be getting near that point. Just shut the door on them.

[Edited by eytanz on 12-12-2003 at 12:52 PM GMT]

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Oneiromancer
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For 7 2N1W...

Game on,

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ClaytonW
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Bat Mass... Nah, I don't like it. Sounds like excrement. But if you kept the "Constantly Shifting" bit, I'd give the band a good listen, because then it sounds like mobile excrement, which is, needless-to-say, much cooler.

Oneiromancer
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Oh, of course, I intended the entire name. You can even truncate it a bit, "Shifting Bat Mass", or "Constantly Shifting Bat", or even "Sligbams".

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

The_Red_Hawk
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I don't know if anyone mentioned this before, as I don't have time to check, or if the newest version has fixed this, but Sixth Story 3W really needs a checkpoint.

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Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Oneiromancer
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There is one in the newest version. Although it's not in a place that I would prefer it to be.

Holy...I just saw in the editor that level 6, 1N 5W is totally changed. Why? Were you unable to get the previous version the way you liked it?

Game on,

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ClaytonW
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Yes.

eytanz
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Hey, question -



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ClaytonW
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eytanz wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×What exactly is the secret room in level 7, with it's 8 different staircases back to level 6, about?

eytanz
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ClaytonW wrote:

eytanz wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×What exactly is the secret room in level 7, with it's 8 different staircases back to level 6, about?

Click here to view the secret text

×Just for fun. I frown upon the level jumps, so I made a mock one. I could've done it better, sure. You're guaranteed to open a staircase each time. A player only needs to try twice to realize they all lead to the Sixth Story. But whatever.

Or, were you asking about the three objects?

As for the roof, by the way, 9N1E (I think - I'm at the office now, but I'm talking about the one with the 2 brains and three sub-rooms filled with queens) - could probably use a second checkpoint; I found the best tactic was to chase small amounts of queens out of the rooms and then hunt them down inidividually, but if I did that wrong then I could make the room unbeatable, so I had to be very careful as to when I used the checkpoint.

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Oneiromancer
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9N1E took me forever. Ugh. And then I got halfway through 9N2E and had to quit out, and when I came back it started me at the beginning instead of the checkpoint...and I couldn't restore to the checkpoint at all. I gotta stop hitting Escape so fast...

And oh yeah... But I could just be seeing things.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 12-14-2003 at 08:37 PM GMT]

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eytanz
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Rooftop, 9N4E checkpoint placement isn't very good. Basically, by the time you reach the checkpoint you've already had to go through some rather difficult areas, which require a lot of repetitive actions if you get them wrong. I'd suggest adding a checkpoint at the corner of the room with the eyes in it that's three squares below the first orb.

(Note: for some weird reason, I didn't notice the lower checkpoint when I first wrote the message. I still think it holds. The way I solved the room, the upper checkpoint was the last thing I reached.)

[Edited by eytanz on 12-15-2003 at 03:03 AM GMT]

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eytanz
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And 9N6E should definitely get a checkpoint. Immediately after the part which requires you to just stand there and kill 200 roaches one by one.

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eytanz
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And 9N6E should definitely get a checkpoint. Immediately after the part which requires you to just stand there and kill 200 roaches one by one.

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ClaytonW
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Oneiromancer wrote:
And oh yeah...

Click here to view the secret text

×that secret room to me looks like some kind of electronics device...those three boxes look like solder pads to me.

But I could just be seeing things.

You're seeing things... not quite what I had in mind. (Hint: if I could put numbers (not scrolls with numbers on them) above the objects, they'd look more like what they're representing.)

ClaytonW
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Checkpoints have been added in the requested locations. (No new download.)

eytanz
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9N9E also needs a checkpoint; preferably somewhere near the orb.



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eytanz
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Regarding 8N, 4E:



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eytanz
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And 8N, 2E:



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ClaytonW
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eytanz wrote:
And 8N, 2E:

Click here to view the secret text

×I finished this room without ever crossing the arrows - is it even possible otherwise?

Sure it is. Why wouldn't it be possible after crossing them? The trapdoors need not be removed to get out.

eytanz
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ClaytonW wrote:

eytanz wrote:
And 8N, 2E:

Click here to view the secret text

×I finished this room without ever crossing the arrows - is it even possible otherwise?

Sure it is. Why wouldn't it be possible after crossing them? The trapdoors need not be removed to get out.

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eytanz
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8N 2W:



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ClaytonW
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eytanz wrote:
8N 2W:

Click here to view the secret text

×This room is really, really easy. Just lure the goblins into the corridor that you start in so that they line up in a nice row, and plow through them. Is this the intention?

Crap. No, that wasn't intended. Thanks for catching that. It'll be fixed. It's still pretty easy, but not THAT easy.

eytanz
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7N1W, on the other hand:



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Oneiromancer
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Merry Xmas, Clayton, I finished playing through the rooftop tonight while pretending to watch "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation." Usually we watch "A Christmas Story", which is much better, although since I've seen it so many times I probably still would have played. Anyway, here are my comments.

The Rooftop:

The early "flashback" rooms are a lot harder than the later ones. 9N 1E and 9N 7E are really tough...although 9N 7E took me longer it didn't feel as hard. I think it's just because like Eytan said, it's annoying how the queens move under brains. You don't really have to change it, just a comment.

8N 7E: was extremely annoying.

8N 4E:

8N 1W:

7N 2W:

And I actually got the ending! So for some reason I don't see that ending stair bug in this level. It must have something to do with the differences between how people construct the holds.

I went through the rest of your hold in the editor to investigate rooms that may have changed, so here are some comments on two other rooms.

Ground Floor, 2N 1W: this room looked different, so I played through it.

Sixth Story, 1N 4W: The right hand scroll had no text on it, although the left one did. And actually I wasn't able to beat the room in enough time to check them out for myself...that seems pretty tough. I don't feel like doing it at this time, so if you say it can be done I will believe you.

Well, that's all I have to say. It looks really good, I think it should be pretty much ready for release! I would hold a last call for comments, then ring in the new year with the largest finished hold available!

Game on,

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