levelthirteen
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Well, whenever you finish, there's a spot on the hold downloads page reserved for it.

Incidently, I've been able to do ONE ROOM! I hate tar, and the rooms on level 1 are full of it. It's driving me insane.

I know, I know, I suck.

Matt

If you want to see all the rooms, and Clayton permits it, I can post a version editable by anyone. Having a sane site admin sounds like a good idea.

ClaytonW
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levelthirteen wrote:
If you want to see all the rooms, and Clayton permits it, I can post a version editable by anyone. Having a sane site admin sounds like a good idea.

All of the main floors of Claythro Tower are numbered (Second, Third, Fourth, etc.), excluding "The Ground Floor." Right now, there are three other levels without numbers. One of which is hidden, but can be found by the player, the other two are currently inaccessible, and were created for a later portion of the hold. I absolutely do NOT, under any circumstances, want them to be seen yet. Now, I'm pretty sure the last version of Claythro Tower I posted had "Only Me" editing privlidges on it. If you're going to post an older version that doesn't include my three non-numbered floors, go ahead. They had "Conqueror" privlidges. If you're doing something sneaky to change the editing privlidges on my latest version, I'm sorry, but I will have to deny permission. I don't mean to sound like a bastard about it, but those two floors are meant for later, seriously.

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Yeah, if Clayton wanted people to be able to edit, he probably would have just set it that way himself. There are more than a couple ways to hack it to get editing privileges that I can think of, and I know we could at least slow down, if not stop two of those ways. The third way I don't think we could possibly stop.

If anyone does hack holds to get editing rights, that's fine, but please keep the method and the modified holds to yourself. Let's respect hold authors' wishes.


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

mrimer
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I'm not sure how much I like people posting "hacked" versions of holds in general. If you've gotta do it for yourself, no one can stop you, but cracking people's work and posting it will just hurt the collective developer's spirit in the long run. People will be afraid to post their work in development, worried their secrets will be given away. The end result is that we end up with less good stuff, a no-win situation in my opinion. If a developer wants people to see all his work, he'll post an open-access hold himself.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

ClaytonW
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mrimer wrote:If a developer wants people to see all his work, he'll post an open-access hold himself.

Indeed. Attached to the first post just for you, Matt (or anyone else who wants it), an "Anyone" permission version of Claythro Tower, levels 1-5. Level 6 is incomplete, and is not included in this download.

Mattcrampy
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Don't mind, I'll live.

I have Wind Waker (where I've realised I've missed a one-time photo op, again), FF9 (where I missed a moogle I needed to give a letter to about 20 hours in, breaking a side-quest beyond repair) and GTA3 (where it's almost impossible to do side-missions now because gangs in two parts of the city delight in shooting at me - I can't go into about an eighth of the map without being shotgunned in the face), so not being able to do some tar rooms in DROD is really the least of my gaming concerns.

But it's sweet, all the same.

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

mrimer
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Argh! Down with those one-time side-quest thingies that you have to have read a strategy guide or walkthrough 90% of the time to even know about!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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I agree with Mike...those side quests can be annoying. I have had (or will have) every single problem that Matt is having too. Matt, are you referring to the Mafia in GTA3? I assume you were because of the shotgun reference...it definitely sucks going back there late in the game.

Well, actually, we shouldn't discuss this because we're stealing Clayton's topic. Go ahead, make a new topic in Anything if you want to.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ClaytonW
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File: Claythro Tower.hold (30.4 KB)
Downloaded 142 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Attached to this (as well as the first) post is Claythro Tower, through the 6th Story.

I'm *gasp* running out of ideas for rooms! Since my last post, I've finished level 6, and played around in the editor for 2 weeks with not one more room created. I've been trying to create rooms that are unique, using movements and concepts that no one has tried before, and I'm just cleaned out right now. I'm going to take a break from it for awhile. If I can't think of much else, Claythro Tower will end soon.

Anywho, The 6th Story is, well, hard to describe. It's difficult, but only on the first run through. It has little replay value, I think.

As usual, share your thoughts.

Scott
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Very clever puzzles. I looked at several rooms for some time thinking thats not possible. No real comments about rooms except for

ClaytonW
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Thanks!

I'm wondering if you could do me a favor though. Could you e-mail me demos of you playing level 6? I'm wondering if there are alternate solutions than the ones I've done.

If you can't, or don't feel like it, that's fine too.

Schik
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On this release, when I complete level 3 it takes me back to the beginning of level 3.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

ClaytonW
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File: Claythro Tower.hold (30.5 KB)
Downloaded 91 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Schik wrote:
On this release, when I complete level 3 it takes me back to the beginning of level 3.

Fixed, download at the left.

Scott
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File: CT Level Six.zip (12.3 KB)
Downloaded 131 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Heres the demos for level 6.

ClaytonW
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Scott wrote:
Heres the demos for level 6.

Thanks buddy, your demos weren't dramatically different from mine except in 1N,4W. Somehow I thought something through wrong when I was making it, but the room isn't broken by any means. You beat me by 20 steps because of your circumvention. ^_^

StuartK
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Checkpoints (what, again?)



Your rooms are great, sometimes inspired puzzles (and level 6 is certainly worthwhile) but you seem to keep forgetting some people are not quite so good at solving your rooms as you are...

Oneiromancer
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File: CT Sixth Story Demos Neil.zip (14 KB)
Downloaded 118 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Oh yeah, more checkpoints would have been very nice, you know I'm not allowed to scream in frustration when I'm at work...

I'm attaching my demos also in case you want to see another set. For most rooms I didn't see any alternate ways to do them but you never know. I guess 3W has several options. BTW, I didn't have to restore to 4W, although I did so I could see what happened if I went to 5W first. It is teh funny.

I think you should go for the magic level 7, but that's probably a good stopping point. As this topic is titled, I thought you had already finished the rooftop, so perhaps you don't have much more work to do. I like the scrolls with your thoughts on them but they kind of "break the fourth wall"...you could do like Eytan did and release a "special DVD edition" or something like that with comments from you on that one.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ClaytonW
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Stuart, Neil, I agree. Checkpoints have been added.

Neil, I agree, I took out some scrolls, but I don't like the idea of copying Eytan's DVD idea... Maybe I'll do something more of a "Fireside DRODing."

Also Neil, Your demos were enlightening.

1S,4W: Much different than what Scott and I did. See Scott's demo.
2W: You were smart enough to see that the southern serpent could be killed from the Left side. Scott and I did it from the right, much trickier. I'm changing the room so it must be done from the right.
1W: Your demo was goofy and you died, but that's my fault, I changed the room a little. I'll pretend that you found a simple way to do the room and that I should make it harder.
1N,4W: Both you and Scott circumvented my plan (which made you have to wait forever for the tar to round the Northwest and Southwest corner), My way, you still had to wait, but there were other things to take care of while you waited. The room will be changed.

Claythro Tower will get a level 7, and then the Rooftop. Which, by the way, must be re-designed since I accidentally deleted all 35 rooms when I was making an editable version of the hold for Matt... I'll go cry now.

Oneiromancer
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ClaytonW wrote:
Stuart, Neil, I agree. Checkpoints have been added.

Make sure to add one to the room with the stairs, so we can have the completed 5W saved.

Neil, I agree, I took out some scrolls, but I don't like the idea of copying Eytan's DVD idea... Maybe I'll do something more of a "Fireside DRODing."

Cool, because like I said, I do like the comments, but in their place is all...

1S,4W: Much different than what Scott and I did. See Scott's demo.

Wow, compared to what he did, mine is the stupid way. But hey, it works, I guess.

2W: You were smart enough to see that the southern serpent could be killed from the Left side. Scott and I did it from the right, much trickier. I'm changing the room so it must be done from the right.

I like to change my own rooms when someone else finds a trivial solution, but trust me, it wasn't that trivial to find the solution you saw. It probably took as much trial and error as the way you intended. So I feel it was just an alternate solution and not that much easier to do. Although if you really had your heart set on that solution then okay, I won't complain.

1W: Your demo was goofy and you died, but that's my fault, I changed the room a little. I'll pretend that you found a simple way to do the room and that I should make it harder.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I think this room may have actually taken me the most tries because I still wasn't used to this way of thinking. Well, that's not true, 3W was really tough. (By the way, was my solution what you intended? I thought I might have cheated just a bit, but perhaps not.) But anyway, it took me a while to get the tar in the middle just right so I could get to both sides. And were the brains there as a total red herring...could I have killed them right away with no repurcussions? Or did I need them to maneuver tar babies to me? I killed them both before I killed the serpents.

1N,4W: Both you and Scott circumvented my plan (which made you have to wait forever for the tar to round the Northwest and Southwest corner), My way, you still had to wait, but there were other things to take care of while you waited. The room will be changed.

I actually restarted from the checkpoint at one point because I thought that there were tar babies in an unreachable location after the mother was dead, because if I went to kill them I couldn't get out again. Then I realized the upper orb opened that door near the other orb. Duh.

Claythro Tower will get a level 7, and then the Rooftop. Which, by the way, must be re-designed since I accidentally deleted all 35 rooms when I was making an editable version of the hold for Matt... I'll go cry now.

Man, I can't even imagine that. I think I have several versions of Treasure Hunt lying around (and of course the one on the forum is like a backup too). And I only have 41 rooms in the entire hold!

This tower doesn't exactly seem architecturally stable though, does it...

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

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File: Claythro does 1W.demo (1.3 KB)
Downloaded 110 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Oneiromancer wrote:
Make sure to add one to the room with the stairs, so we can have the completed 5W saved.

There's already two in that room, I don't need to add any more. Look harder.

I like to change my own rooms when someone else finds a trivial solution, but trust me, it wasn't that trivial to find the solution you saw. It probably took as much trial and error as the way you intended. So I feel it was just an alternate solution and not that much easier to do. Although if you really had your heart set on that solution then okay, I won't complain.

Well, it's not that I intended the serpent to be killed on the right, it's just that, in all the times I played it, I didn't realize you could kill it from the left, which makes it tons easier. So I felt stupid. =)

1W: Your demo was goofy and you died, but that's my fault, I changed the room a little. I'll pretend that you found a simple way to do the room and that I should make it harder.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I think this room may have actually taken me the most tries because I still wasn't used to this way of thinking. Well, that's not true, 3W was really tough. (By the way, was my solution what you intended? I thought I might have cheated just a bit, but perhaps not.) But anyway, it took me a while to get the tar in the middle just right so I could get to both sides. And were the brains there as a total red herring...could I have killed them right away with no repurcussions? Or did I need them to maneuver tar babies to me? I killed them both before I killed the serpents.

The way I normally design rooms is that I make a little bit, put Beethro down, and see if he can get through it. If he can, I tack more onto the room. I didn't do that with the 6th level, I designed the whole room at once, and hoped I could find a way through. If he could, I kept it, if he couldn't, I'd add/remove things until it was working how I wanted it. I don't doubt that there are mulitple solutions for 1W,2W,3W, and 1S,4W.

As far as the brains in 1W, The way I solved it (attached), if I killed them as soon as I could, the room would indeed be unsolvable because the tar wouldn't grow where it was supposed to because a tar baby blocked it. (as you said) I threw in the brains so that the baby would come around to me, letting the tar grow.

I actually restarted [1N,4W] from the checkpoint at one point because I thought that there were tar babies in an unreachable location after the mother was dead, because if I went to kill them I couldn't get out again. Then I realized the upper orb opened that door near the other orb. Duh.

I made this room like I described above, a little bit at a time. I thought I had it so that if you went through the "turnstile" too early, you would end up screwing yourself. I see by the two demos that I made a mistake in allowing the right door of the turnstile to re-open, but I remember doing that for a reason, though I can't remember what.

This tower doesn't exactly seem architecturally stable though, does it...

Now now, Watcher and I already addressed this issue, on the second page of the thread. The first three floors were all 3x3, then Watcher mentioned it, and I didn't want to keep make boring level designs.

Oneiromancer
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ClaytonW wrote:There's already two in that room, I don't need to add any more. Look harder.

Hmmm. I can't look at this moment, but I don't understand why there are any in there already, since the room had a trivial solution of like 5 moves. I'll look again when I go to work today.

Edit: okay, so they're under the tar that you don't need to clear. Maybe this is being unreasonably nitpicky, but since the whole point of checkpoints in a stairs room is of convenience for the player, it is silly to have them be so easily skippable. You could just as easily put one past the green door and it would have the same effect. Basically, hidden checkpoints in a room like this defeat the entire purpose of those checkpoints.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 11-08-2003 at 09:12 PM GMT]

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Mattcrampy
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ClaytonW wrote:

Claythro Tower will get a level 7, and then the Rooftop. Which, by the way, must be re-designed since I accidentally deleted all 35 rooms when I was making an editable version of the hold for Matt... I'll go cry now.

You know what's funny?

I never downloaded the editable version. Although it was nice of you, it really wasn't necessary.

I'm still ploughing through the Tower, and got over the difficulty. It's still an absolute *****, but I'm enjoying myself.

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

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Mattcrampy wrote:
You know what's funny?

I never downloaded the editable version. Although it was nice of you, it really wasn't necessary.

I'm still ploughing through the Tower, and got over the difficulty. It's still an absolute *****, but I'm enjoying myself.

Matt

HILARIOUS.

billbuckner
Level: Delver
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Where is the editable version? I'd like that greatly.

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

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billbuckner wrote:
Where is the editable version? I'd like that greatly.

It's gone. I pulled it down when I updated my hold last. I'll put a new one up possibly later today if I remember.

Can't wait until drod.net has that hold page. Enough of posting files all over the place!

ClaytonW
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Oneiromancer wrote:okay, so they're under the tar that you don't need to clear. Maybe this is being unreasonably nitpicky, but since the whole point of checkpoints in a stairs room is of convenience for the player, it is silly to have them be so easily skippable. You could just as easily put one past the green door and it would have the same effect. Basically, hidden checkpoints in a room like this defeat the entire purpose of those checkpoints.

I made a probably unfair assumption that by the time that players have worked through Dugan's Dungeon, and five levels of Claythro Tower, that they'd realize there usually is a checkpoint in a stairs room.

Oneiromancer
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ClaytonW wrote:
Can't wait until drod.net has that hold page. Enough of posting files all over the place!

Actually, the hold page and forum will be meant for completed holds, so even when it is up unfinished holds will still have to be done the same way, here in the Architecture forum.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 11-09-2003 at 07:26 PM GMT]

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Oneiromancer
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ClaytonW wrote:
I made a probably unfair assumption that by the time that players have worked through Dugan's Dungeon, and five levels of Claythro Tower, that they'd realize there usually is a checkpoint in a stairs room.

Well, yeah, I usually assume that there is one, but another cultivated reaction is when there is tar, and you open the green door, get yourself to the exit before accidentally making a tar baby in a place you can't reach. So, I killed the tar mother, and ran for it. But actually it's not so big a deal for this room because since there's a monster in it DROD saves the game at the entrance. Or something like that...there's a reason why checkpoint are in the exit rooms which are usually monsterless.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Mattcrampy
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On the topic of the hold download page, Schik's built the prototype. On his test forum, we've submitted a few holds. All he has to do, I think, is build the functions I'll hook up to the web page.

It's really quite cool.

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

eytanz
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3W really, really needs a checkpoint somewhere - I know exactly what I have to do, and I always complete about 90% of it before I accidently wait a turn too much and get eaten by a tar baby.



____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!