Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

I have finished level 4 and am on to level 5.

I do have a complaint about the entrance in lvl 5 though. Those red doors I feel are placed badly. If they were back a little rather than right on the edge of the room it would be better.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

ClaytonW wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×I probably shouldn't have said it wouldn't work, because I didn't really doubt it was possible. It's definitely not the easiest way to kill it though. My intention: Stand above the orb that opens the serpents door, then, right after the serpent turns Northward, strike the orb. The serpent will turn toward you, and you can shut the door again, thus trapping it.

I guarantee its possible. I have a demo.

Oh, I believe you. I wasn't implying it was impossible--just that I was stuck there. I only spent about 10 tries on it before I decided I should get back to work. I'm sure I'll beat it once I start playing again...whenever that is.

I am so extremely happy that my hold is giving you and others a fun experience. I am also so extremely happy that my hold is giving you and others a hard time too. ^_^

Yeah, the only problem with giving others a hard time is that we tend not to want to play those &*^(%^^&% rooms over again. Which can make helping you playtest tough. If it wasn't for the warps I would have left the hold for others to play...at least until the full DROD:AE comes out. Then at least it will be easier to update the holds.

But yes, I am having lots of fun, in that "satisfaction at surmounting impossible odds" way.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1721
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I love the layout of level 5! I don't like the challenges it's presenting, but I haven't spent enough time on it yet to request help.

____________________________

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

I have done 4 rooms on level 5 now but I can't see any way to complete 2N and 2N1E are they solvable?

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

You know, I was wondering - what changed in level 1 1E? I can't see any difference from the way I remember the room - there may have been something subtle changed, but reading the announcements it seems something major should be different...

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Please ignore my previous post I have completed level 5. This is a very nice hold.

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Scott wrote:
I have finished level 4 and am on to level 5.

I do have a complaint about the entrance in lvl 5 though. Those red doors I feel are placed badly. If they were back a little rather than right on the edge of the room it would be better.

I looked at it a minute, and decided that you're right. I've pulled them back a square. Also, the door to the North shouldn't even be there, because if you do go that way, you're forced to turn around because there are too many roaches there. I've changed it to force arrows pointing South.

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:
You know, I was wondering - what changed in level 1 1E? I can't see any difference from the way I remember the room - there may have been something subtle changed, but reading the announcements it seems something major should be different...

Oops, my mistake. I messed up on the room coordinates I was talking about. It should've read:

-Level 1:2N1E was changed to fix a design flaw.
-Level 1:1N1E was completely redone to make a legitimate puzzle. Fun, I thought.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

ClaytonW wrote:
I looked at it a minute, and decided that you're right. I've pulled them back a square. Also, the door to the North shouldn't even be there, because if you do go that way, you're forced to turn around because there are too many roaches there. I've changed it to force arrows pointing South.

I completed the room to the north from that direction,



I don't like the red doors pulled back, because that room is basically unpassable from that point. But then again, it's bad design to have Beethro standing ontop of a door when entering a room. How did he climb up there? Perhaps there's something better to put in place of the trapdoor maze, but your space is kinda restricted... Perhaps a red door placed such that after Beethro escapes, he'll be able to move freely between the two exits in that room.

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

StuartK wrote:

ClaytonW wrote:
I looked at it a minute, and decided that you're right. I've pulled them back a square. Also, the door to the North shouldn't even be there, because if you do go that way, you're forced to turn around because there are too many roaches there. I've changed it to force arrows pointing South.

I completed the room to the north from that direction,

I've placed force arrows preventing you from going into 1N from the entrance. However, even if you leave 1N inhabited, go south into the entrance, then go back up to 1N, you cannot clear it because I've added an extra wall on the West side of that room so there's three roaches when you enter, not just two (which is how I assume you managed to get through there).

I don't like the red doors pulled back, because that room is basically unpassable from that point. But then again, it's bad design to have Beethro standing ontop of a door when entering a room. How did he climb up there? Perhaps there's something better to put in place of the trapdoor maze, but your space is kinda restricted... Perhaps a red door placed such that after Beethro escapes, he'll be able to move freely between the two exits in that room.

Since I can't add any walls to the room without damaging the handsome layout, I'm not sure such a setup would be possible without removing/relocating some of the monsters. And besides, you don't have to travel through the entrance between the two rooms, there's also 1N,1E.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

ClaytonW wrote:
I've placed force arrows preventing you from going into 1N from the entrance. However, even if you leave 1N inhabited, go south into the entrance, then go back up to 1N, you cannot clear it because I've added an extra wall on the West side of that room so there's three roaches when you enter, not just two (which is how I assume you managed to get through there).

Ah well. The other entrance isn't quite so entertaining, but OK, it's a fair sacrifice to expediency.

Since I can't add any walls to the room without damaging the handsome layout, I'm not sure such a setup would be possible without removing/relocating some of the monsters. And besides, you don't have to travel through the entrance between the two rooms, there's also 1N,1E.

Sorry, I posted my reply without looking at the room again. Obviously you're right (unless you can be convinced to put a big bulge on the side there )

[Edited by StuartK on 09-25-2003 at 06:53 AM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

I just finished level 5 and the two rooms on level 6. Level 5 was definitely nice...how long did that take you? The only room that gave me trouble was actually 1N (I did it before you changed it)--it took me a while to figure out how to herd the roach queens so I didn't get swamped from both directions. The demo of me beating it looks so graceful compared to the ways I died horribly.

As far as level 6 goes, 1S was actually quite easy, I beat it on the first try. If it wasn't for that scroll I probably would have needed two tries. That's okay though, it's good to have a break sometimes. 1W was more troublesome--I didn't even realize at first that I was being "timed". Very clever.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:
Level 5 was definitely nice...how long did that take you?

Hmm, I didn't do it all in one sitting, but I'd say about 3 minutes to get my picture into the size and contrast required. (I actually chopped the picture in half horizontally and did the contrast for both halves separately to make everything defined enough.) After that, I'd say an hour to construct it in the editor, and I spent 3 hours to put puzzles in. (Yeah, I could've worked harder.)

The only room that gave me trouble was actually 1N (I did it before you changed it)--it took me a while to figure out how to herd the roach queens so I didn't get swamped from both directions. The demo of me beating it looks so graceful compared to the ways I died horribly.

I never herded any queens.


Thanks for the review!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

ClaytonW wrote:
I never herded any queens.

Click here to view the secret text

×I start the room in the East in the center, sword pointed East. Then I just dart left into 'my ear' and kill roaches until there's a break in the horde. I kill the brain, and the rest is just fancy footwork.

I agree--that's how I start the room. But after the brain is dead...



Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, or if Claythro changed this in another version, but there is a shortcut to the room with the long snake and the horde of roaches - if you are standing on the door when the mimic hits the orb, you can kill half the horde yourself.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

That's in level 1 - the last room when you go east


____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, or if Claythro changed this in another version, but there is a shortcut to the room with the long snake and the horde of roaches - if you are standing on the door when the mimic hits the orb, you can kill half the horde yourself.

Back on the first page of this topic I mentioned in my comments that you could beat the room without using the mimic almost at all. But I didn't come out and say specifically what I did because I wanted to keep it my little secret...so thanks a lot!

I don't know if Clayton changed the room since then...I haven't gone back to check out the level 1 rooms.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

It's sort of an obvious thing to do to any experienced player. In fact, the first time I played through the level, I thought this was the intended solution.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

The other way is to use the roaches to "push" the mimic against so it can move around. That is what I assumed was the intended solution, since it is much more evil.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

About that room (1:1E,2N):

The original design had a severe flaw which allowed you to clear the room without needing to shut the "protection wall." This was accomplished by simply putting the mimic next to you, retreating to the entrance, and swinging back and forth.

I thought I had fixed problem by placing a red door across the entrance, with a Northward force arrow allowing you to enter. (You could enter, but couldn't leave until you cleared the trapdoors.) This was unintentionally ineffective, because someone found out that you could just stand on the force arrow, rotate in place, and kill the roaches as they came with no threat to you.

I thought I had fixed THAT problem by removing the force arrow, and adding a second exit with a green door across it. (I have no idea why I thought this fixed the problem, because at this point, the original problem was back again: you could just put the mimic next to you and swing back and forth.) This problem is visible in the last version of Claythro Tower I posted.

I have now fixed the problem forever (I hope), using a rather ingenious method: I put a single roach in the top area where the trapdoors are. If you put the mimic next to you, you can't get that roach. The ONLY way to beat the room now is to kill the single roach first, then remove all the trapdoors so you can strike the orb that puts up the "protection wall" before the serpent shortens too far. Then, you must carefully push your mimic around other roaches to smite them all. Whew!

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

This thread has gotten rather unwieldy. Where can I find the latest version of your hold (and more importantly does it now have the replacement tar mother maze )?

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Tscott wrote:
This thread has gotten rather unwieldy. Where can I find the latest version of your hold (and more importantly does it now have the replacement tar mother maze )?

From this day forth, I shall post the latest version of Claythro Tower at the first message of this thread, as well as any post I make about updating it.

Watcher
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 902
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

By now, I've defeated levels 4 and 5. Fun! Two quick comments:



____________________________
Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Watcher wrote:
By now, I've defeated levels 4 and 5. Fun! Two quick comments:

Click here to view the secret text

×Level 5: Your blue door doesn't block anything. You can walk right around it.

Level 5, 1 North: I completed this room entering from the east, just one square above the bottom right corner. Yes, that means I'm standing at the end of the long line of roaches at the bottom. It's still possible to defeat the room, though. You should try it.

Those two problems have been fixed. I'll upload the newest version when I... uh... finish levels 6, 7, and 8. You see, I've recently taken a hiatus from the main levels of Claythro Tower, and I went ahead and finished the Rooftop. The final floor of Claythro Tower contains... brace yourself... Thirty-Five rooms. Twenty-six are quite difficult, Five are pretty easy, and the remaining four contain no monsters, and are just for passing through. I look forward to torturing you all.

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1721
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

If that is the case, expect a week from me for response time...at least.

____________________________

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Does the version in the first thread contain the top floor or have you not uploaded it yet? Because I can't find a way to it if its there. I redid the 2 rooms on level 6 and the stairs there take me to the end rather than to another level.

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Scott wrote:
Does the version in the first thread contain the top floor or have you not uploaded it yet? Because I can't find a way to it if its there. I redid the 2 rooms on level 6 and the stairs there take me to the end rather than to another level.

I haven't uploaded it yet. Even when I upload the next version, you'll only be able to play 6, 7, and 8. The Rooftop is off-limits until I decide my hold is comlete (I may fall short of the 26 floors I originally intended).

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Well, whenever you finish, there's a spot on the hold downloads page reserved for it.

Incidently, I've been able to do ONE ROOM! I hate tar, and the rooms on level 1 are full of it. It's driving me insane.

I know, I know, I suck.

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Mattcrampy wrote:
Incidently, I've been able to do ONE ROOM! I hate tar, and the rooms on level 1 are full of it. It's driving me insane.

Boy, you'll sure be in trouble later on.