Elfstone
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Yes, you will have to download the full new version file from the website in order to follow those directions.

Game on,

Thanks Dream-maker.

Well that download isn't a possibility unless I can sort out broadband. I'll investigate; more and more of the country is becoming . . . compatible (? is that the right word?) so it may be possible to have it here now.

Elfstone.

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trick
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Hm, maybe we could make a patch for the installer. Of course, if we could make patches for Mac in the first place we wouldn't have to do that ..

Are you able to compile programs written in C, Elfstone ?

- Gerry

Alneyan
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Elfstone wrote:
Welll that download isn't a possibility unless I can sort out broadband. I'll investigate; more and more of the country is becoming . . . compatible (? is that the right word?) so it may be possible to have it here now.

Elfstone.

I would expect broadband to be available in most places near towns (not necessarily big towns); the upper limit is five kilometres away from a broadband terminal, if memory serves. Deployment of broadband is more or less complete in France at present, with a pretty good coverage of the country, though broadband really began around 2001.

If you can spend an unlimited amount of time on the internet, broadband isn't strictly a necessity. Some programs will allow you to resume downloading a file, so you could do a few percents every now and then (or half the file in an afternoon). If you only have X hours a month on the internet, that could be a bit trickier.

Of course, dial-up isn't convenient when downloading, but it can work in a pinch. I know I used to download some 100 or 200 mb files at slightly less than 10 mb an hour, while the same file would take me perhaps the whole of three minutes now. Shame broadband isn't particularly stable around here...

Elfstone
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trick wrote:
Are you able to compile programs written in C, Elfstone ?

- ohhh!? you were serious?!?!?!?

I can't compile a programme at all. I could write you a Symphony in C, or a String Trio or Song Cycle, or some such, but I don't think that would be helpful in this situation. I am one of those people who knows almost nothing about the insides of computers. I use computers, quite a lot nowadays, but using isn't the same as understanding the workings.

Sorry.
Elfstone.

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Elfstone
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Alneyan wrote:

I would expect broadband to be available in most places near towns (not necessarily big towns); the upper limit is five kilometres away from a broadband terminal, if memory serves.

Your right of course; progress marches on and it is quite some time (back last year) since I investigated the possibility, so I will do some new research.

Some programs will allow you to resume downloading a file, so you could do a few percents every now and then (or half the file in an afternoon).

I have done that with updates for the OS and such like, but I'm pretty sure I asked Erik, just after I joined up here, if that was possible with the game downloads and the answer was 'no'. I'll take a look back at my emails to check.


Thanks,
Elfstone.

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Alneyan
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Elfstone wrote:
I have done that with updates for the OS and such like, but I'm pretty sure I asked Erik, just after I joined up here, if that was possible with the game downloads and the answer was 'no'.

Sorry, I didn't remember the little fact that full versions are on a special server.

"Able" in Trick's request might not mean "understand how to", but rather "let the computer do the job". I don't know much more than basic C and its "support" files, but I have compilled a whole system and some specific programs without any trouble.

In such cases, typing a few commands ("./configure, make and make install" is a common mantra) is all you need to do, if your computer has the adequate programs, as in a C compiler and the C standard librairy (plus other librairies the program might require). Xcode might do that, or the Developer Tools, but I haven't gone anywhere near a Mac in the last ten years, so.

I'm not sure if you would have to do more than type a few commands to take up Trick's offer, but it could be the case as he didn't ask you if you could modify the source code yourself. Of course, I'm not speaking in his stead.

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I recently installed the developer tools on my PowerBook in an ill-advised attempt to compile a binary for The Ur-Quan Masters when it already had an OSX binary available, so... I'd need someone to tell me what I'm supposed to do, but I could at least try and compile some code if the code is out there to be compiled...

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Elfstone
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Many thanks for you help and advice guys!

Hikari, if you can provide me with something simple to do ( I'm good enough at following instructions with a computer) I will be very grateful, but don't put yourself to any inconvenience on my account.

Elfstone.

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Hikari
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:laughs: It's OK, Elfstone. I've been waiting at least as long as you have for a patch so that us Mac-users can have the current version of DROD Besides, I've already gone out of my way to install the 1.3GB or so of stuff to compile programs, so as long as someone can manage to give me the appropriate code and walk me through it since I have No Freaking Clue *how*...

Besides, it's not as if I have anything better to do... My days lately are filled with equal parts Looking For Work and playing DROD, so it's no real inconvenience to me ^^;;

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trick
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Alneyan wrote:
"Able" in Trick's request might not mean "understand how to", but rather "let the computer do the job". I don't know much more than basic C and its "support" files, but I have compilled a whole system and some specific programs without any trouble.

Yeah, it'd basically be "run make", maybe having to install a (common) library dependency first if it's not already installed.

Anyway, I went ahead and did a diff between the full version installers of JtRH, version 2.0.11 (Elfstone, this is the one you've already got, right ?) and 2.0.13 (latest available for Mac OS X ?). Unfortunately I've been unable to find a decompresser for dmg files that doesn't require Mac OS X, so I had to diff the already compressed dmg files instead. Diffing compressed files usually result in large diffs even if the changes in the uncompressed data are relatively small, in this case the smallest one I could make is about 34 mb. Since the full installer is just twice that, there's not much point

If someone could point me to some info about how to decompress dmg files, I'd probably be able to make a smaller diff.

- Gerry

michthro
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TransMac for Windows looks like it can read .dmg files. There's a 30-day trial version, but I don't know what the limitations are. Maybe that can help?

Elfstone
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Yeah, it'd basically be "run make", maybe having to install a (common) library dependency first if it's not already installed.

Anyway, I went ahead and did a diff between the full version installers of JtRH, version 2.0.11 (Elfstone, this is the one you've already got, right ?) and 2.0.13 (latest available for Mac OS X ?). Unfortunately I've been unable to find a decompresser for dmg files that doesn't require Mac OS X, so I had to diff the already compressed dmg files instead. Diffing compressed files usually result in large diffs even if the changes in the uncompressed data are relatively small, in this case the smallest one I could make is about 34 mb. Since the full installer is just twice that, there's not much point

If someone could point me to some info about how to decompress dmg files, I'd probably be able to make a smaller diff.

- Gerry

ummmmmm, 'yes' to this bit "version 2.0.11 (Elfstone, this is the one you've already got, right ?)"

I'm afraid the rest was last seen disappearing into the middle distance some considerable way above my head!

(I do understand that you are trying to help of course, so many thanks.)

Elfstone

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Hikari
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:translates for Elfstone:

He's on a non-Mac system of some sort, possibly Windows, and is trying to see how different the 2.0.11 and 2.0.13 versions are on Mac so that he can see if a patch is easy to make, but is having some trouble.

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Elfstone
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Hikari wrote:
:translates for Elfstone:

He's on a non-Mac system of some sort, possibly Windows, and is trying to see how different the 2.0.11 and 2.0.13 versions are on Mac so that he can see if a patch is easy to make, but is having some trouble.

Ahaaaa! now that I can understand

Thanks Hikari.
Elf.

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Hikari
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Hee, it's no problem.

Best not to ask why a right-brain-dominant sort like myself knows all that left-brain computer talk, though

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Elfstone
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Hikari wrote:
Best not to ask why a right-brain-dominant sort like myself knows all that left-brain computer talk, though

Are you left handed then?

(apologies if that seems too nosy)

Elf.

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Hikari
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Elfstone wrote:

Hikari wrote:
Best not to ask why a right-brain-dominant sort like myself knows all that left-brain computer talk, though

Are you left handed then?

(apologies if that seems too nosy)

Elf.

Alas, I am not. Though oddly enough, I hold my pencil with a left-handed grip rather than a right-handed one (whatever that means; I get told it a lot but I have no clue what people are talking about)...

I spent a long time doing computery and logical stuff up until I started trying to go down a more creative path in life a few years ago. So I know my way around computers, but the longer I'm an 'artist', the less I'm able to handle myself on anything but Macs ^^;;

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Elfstone
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Hikari wrote:

Alas, I am not.

Regret ? why so? and aren't right-dominant-brain people always left handed?

Creative and "computery" - you've got the best of both worlds then.

( I realise this has gone off-topic a bit; sorry)

Elf.

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eytanz
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Elfstone wrote:

Hikari wrote:

Alas, I am not.

Regret ? why so? and aren't right-dominant-brain people always left handed?

No. At least not how the term is used in common-speech, which has precious little to do with actual neurophysiology.

And even if you're speaking with some sort of scientific basis, it's possible to be right-brain dominant on cognitive functions but not motor skills (and vice-versa).

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Hikari
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Elfstone wrote:

Hikari wrote:

Alas, I am not.

Regret ? why so?

:shrugs: Because people might stop saying that it's weird for me to think so right-brained all the time but be right-handed?

Stupid urban legends about brain function...

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trick
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You all speak as if coding can't be creative. It's not just applying known algorithms to standard problems all the time, you know . If you think within the box all the time your code will suffer. Specially if you're optimizing or working in a limited environment.

Personally I think that both coding and graphics work can be a creative experience. Different kinds of creativity, but they complement each other very well, I think.

- Gerry

Niccus
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This almost cut it.

Do this or these count?

/shameless self-promotion and off-topic continuance

---

[Last edited by Niccus at 07-27-2006 03:35 AM]

mrimer
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When I was young, I chose to focus on using the computer as a creative tool since is more flexible and powerful than any other tool.

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michthro
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Back on topic, if I may: TransMac works, so now I have the 2.0.11 and 2.0.13 versions of DrodJtRHSetup.dmg in expanded form. The rest should simply be a matter of typing "diff --binary setup11 setup13 >patch", and Mac users wanting to upgrade 2.0.11 to 2.0.13 download the small patch file and type "patch blah blah..", right? But the problem is that diff only tells me "yeah, the files are different". Can someone please explain to me how to get it to actually write the differences to a file? I have cygwin and UnxUtils, which diff commands I understand are the same (and give the same useless result).

Hikari
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Umm...

If I recall correctly, a downloaded copy of DROD for Mac doesn't have a setup so much as a complete application to drag-and-drop wherever you want. Which means you'll have a folder called DROD.app in the .dmg file, which contains all the stuff for your DROD to work.

I don't remember ever seeing an actual installer in there at all.

Might that be part of your problem? Could the files inside the .dmg archives *literally* be different?

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michthro
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Oh, yeah, I know, but the files on the download page are called DRODJtRHSetup. Anyway, it doesn't matter what exactly is in it. However it's structured internally, it's still just one long sequence of bytes. The problem is that I can't get the diff command to work on any binary files, which is a pity - having decompressed the full downloads, it's supposed to be dead simple to create a patch file which Mac users can apply from the command line (yay for the Mac), but nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

bdwing
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I'm curious about the status of 2.0.15.

Is it still beta?

It seems as if the last candidate has been out a while but this thread still lists 2.0.14.1 as the last official version.

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NiroZ
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bdwing wrote:
I'm curious about the status of 2.0.15.

Is it still beta?

It seems as if the last candidate has been out a while but this thread still lists 2.0.14.1 as the last official version.

Its 'Should be stable, but if something goes wrong and you didn't make a backup, its your own damn fault' beta.

mrimer
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2.0.15 JtRH and KDD patch installers (Windows) are officially released. The changelog and download link can be found here:
http://caravelgames.com/jtrhpatch.html

Linux and Mac updates are forthcoming.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 02-19-2007 02:25 AM]

NiroZ
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mrimer wrote:
2.0.15 JtRH and KDD patch installers are officially released. The changelog and download link can be found here:
http://caravelgames.com/jtrhpatch.html

So is there any difference between the one on the bugs board and the one on the site?