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Simple Sight
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File: A Scholarly Pursuit.hold (24.4 KB)
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icon A Scholarly Pursuit (+4)  
Hi.

I've been experimenting with the level builder on and off and have ended up with something resembling a level of a hold.

This isn't a complete experience by any means but I wanted to see if anyone on this forum would be kind enough to throw some feedback/playtesting my way regarding it.

By that, if you feel you can muster up the willpower, please do. :) :) :)

Apart from saying if some rooms are dreadful/uninspired, for example, if you feel any rooms are largely easier/harder than the rest or don't fit in, let me know, as I know most of them reasonably well by now so its hard for me to gauge.

For the record, you'll have finished the first level (and all of the non-secret rooms) when you can pass the blue doors (I know that sounds wildly obvious, it's just that you can drop down to the second level to clear some rooms which ultimately allows to clear the first level in the first place. It's a little dark souls-coded.).

EDIT: I've changed the attachment to amend some things that only required quick fixes (like a lack of checkpoints), puzzle design is (largely) unchanged.

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I'm getting that DS feeling...

[Last edited by Simple Sight at 04-27-2025 02:31 AM]
04-25-2025 at 03:30 PM
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LovaP48
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File: A Scholarly Pursuit LovaP48 first few.demo (5.9 KB)
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+2)  
Hello, I downloaded your hold and played through a few rooms - it's very late by now, but hopefully on Sunday I get to play through some more, I'm liking it quite a bit.
Here are some written thoughts (secreted to have the post shorter) and I also attach my demos.
The rooms are written down in the order I played them in.
Click here to view the secret text

For now, that's it.
Hope this helps you!
04-25-2025 at 11:16 PM
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Simple Sight
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+1)  
Thanks for the response :) :) :)
And I'm glad you are liking it, your notes are enlightening !!! It seems I've been tunnel-visioned for a while now - so much has been evading me.

I wanted to throw some notes on your notes on the rooms together, so I did. If I don't mention something you mentioned, I whole-heartedly agreed with it. I'll follow your form and employ secreting too.

Click here to view the secret text

Just for reference, would it be considered bad form if I only put vision tokens in rooms where there is stuff beneath tarstuff? I throw them in any room that has tarstuff in there just in case but I'm not massively fond of the clutter.

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I'm getting that DS feeling...

[Last edited by Simple Sight at 04-26-2025 12:40 AM]
04-26-2025 at 12:39 AM
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Xindaris
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File: A Scholarly Pursuit.demo (6.3 KB)
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+1)  
Hey, I had a look at some rooms; demos attached.

First, to answer your question, I'd usually only consider a vision token necessary with tarstuff if there's something under the tarstuff to actually see.

Second, some room comments:
Click here to view the secret text


I also find the lack of a blue door before the stairs to the second level notable. Is it just that the rooms aren't finished and you're planning to add a blue door once they are, or is this to be a "fully open" style of hold?

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-26-2025 06:00 PM]
04-26-2025 at 05:59 PM
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Simple Sight
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+1)  
Xindaris wrote:
Hey, I had a look at some rooms; demos attached.
Thanks for taking the time! Your comments and demos were highly valuable :) :) :)

Responses to your room comments, should you care for them:

Click here to view the secret text

The lack of a blue door at those stairs is intentional but the hold isn't "fully open", as you put it - I'm just fond of how in Journey to Rooted Hold you go up and down stairs for individual puzzles every now and again (I think that happens at least once, anyway), and I'm mimicking that.

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04-26-2025 at 07:52 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+2)  
I see; of course a hold can ask you to traverse multiple levels before reaching a blue door somewhere.

With 1E I'll say: Don't worry about making a room obtuse or hard; people do love that. I may figure it out eventually, with a hint or two, and one can move on to other rooms anyway.

...And for 1N1E, it seems obvious that you can leave to the east now that you've pointed it out. But I didn't notice that as an option when first entering. Probably on me.

I wonder if setting the player's expectations with some of the flavor text would help here. Like, somehow subtly hinting (or outright stating) somewhere that "you may not be able to solve some problems right away" or "going around before going through may be needed." I made a slightly insane hold a while back based on looping around, backtracking, re-seeding and re-solving rooms, but if one walks into a hold expecting to solve each room as they come to it (which is "standard" but far from "the only right way"), that kind of thing can take a bit to realize.

..Maybe, also, giving the levels titles other than "first" and "second" could help too? That really sets one's expectations to "I'll do this level, then that one", while having "location-sounding names" like "ancient tomb", "catacombs", "basement", whatever, makes it feel a little less so.

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Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 04-26-2025 11:10 PM]
04-26-2025 at 11:07 PM
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Simple Sight
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+1)  
Cool, that all makes sense !!! :) :) :)

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04-26-2025 at 11:45 PM
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LovaP48
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File: A Scholarly Pursuit LovaP48 all first level from me.demo (7.8 KB)
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+1)  
I had some more time, but probably not as much as I thought when I wrote my last post.
I have written down more thoughts about the rooms I looked at and attach my demos.
As last time, the rooms are written down in the order I played them in.
Click here to view the secret text

For now, that's it, I think I'm gonna wait on another version before giving this another look.
(I think with mine and Xindaris' comments, you have most of the first level covered anyway.)
Lastly, I wanna say that having easy/simple rooms and challenges isn't a bad thing at all, you can definitely include those without feeling bad at all.
I just have a lot of "playtime" on this and by now, especially having played the Smitemater's Selection Treacle Stew, something like that golem manipulation in 2N1W is "standard" for me.
Good luck and hope to hear more from you soon!
04-27-2025 at 09:34 PM
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Simple Sight
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (0)  
LovaP48 wrote:
For now, that's it, I think I'm gonna wait on another version before giving this another look.
Cool :) :) :) you've been a great help !!! Your room comments are highly valuable !!!!!!!!!!!!

On the topic of 1S1E, I can only confirm your fears. I will at the very least make this room less tedious, probably, but I may come to find its lynchpin inherently problematic, like you may.
LovaP48 wrote:
Good luck and hope to hear more from you soon!
Thanks !!! :)

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04-27-2025 at 10:08 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+4)  
EDIT: I'm dumb, moved to the correct thread

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[Last edited by Schik at 05-07-2025 07:01 PM]
05-07-2025 at 03:55 PM
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LovaP48
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icon Re: A Scholarly Pursuit (+5)  
Uh Schik?
Unless I'm missing something, I think you posted wrong links here. Those links are the "changeling chambers" videos. Perhaps you wanted to post those in a different thread?
I'm puzzled :D
05-07-2025 at 06:59 PM
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