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azb
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All of your suggestions are wonderful and well thought out. I will fix all of the things you addressed, except for the level 11 challenge I will intentionally keep deleted/omitted.

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07-30-2024 at 05:15 PM
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azb
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I decided to keep level 35 as-is, except for the secret which I fixed based on your suggestion (using Halph as part of the puzzle to make the secret more interesting), because mimic manipulation/guiding was the theme of the original JtRH level 9, just like things hidden under tar were a real thing in the original JtRH level 10, but I did add the vision tokens - not having them in level 39 was 100% an oversight.

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07-30-2024 at 05:37 PM
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azb
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And I get that certain things like serpent juggling aren't everybody's thing, and I know it would be rude to force everyone to have the same exact tastes, so I'm fine with that, just like I'm fine with people not liking lots of combat rooms even though I do, but I was just taking offense earlier because I felt like I was being accused of not listening to feedback when I point out the things I don't change are always not changed for a well thought out and intentional reason, and are never just me being stubborn for no reason.

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07-30-2024 at 05:44 PM
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azb
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When you reach level 50, it will be intentionally "repeating the same room but with a slight twist" like KDD level 6, and the focus of each room will be manipulating goblins to kill serpents.

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07-30-2024 at 05:47 PM
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azb
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So to recap, all of levels 41 thru 100 are themed on:

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07-30-2024 at 06:55 PM
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Nuntar
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azb wrote:
And I get that certain things like serpent juggling aren't everybody's thing, and I know it would be rude to force everyone to have the same exact tastes, so I'm fine with that, just like I'm fine with people not liking lots of combat rooms even though I do, but I was just taking offense earlier because I felt like I was being accused of not listening to feedback when I point out the things I don't change are always not changed for a well thought out and intentional reason, and are never just me being stubborn for no reason.

I get that, and like I said, I'm sorry for what I said earlier and I hope we can put that behind us. I was mainly feeling frustrated because it felt like we didn't have working two-way communication, as shown by things like your comment that "complaints about tedious monster cleaning or repetitive and similar rooms or blocky layouts will be ignored" (page 2) and sending the hold to HA despite knowing there was a non-working challenge. No-one likes to feel that their feedback is going to be ignored. But it does seem that now we have a mode that works for both of us, separating the subjective aspects from concrete suggestions, and agreeing that except for where things outright don't work, you're not obliged to make any suggested changes.

azb wrote:
When you reach level 50, it will be intentionally "repeating the same room but with a slight twist" like KDD level 6, and the focus of each room will be manipulating goblins to kill serpents.

Just to make my position clear, I am completely okay with intentionally repeating rooms with a twist. When it's done well, it can be a very effective gimmick. For example, "How to Build a Room" from Twelve Days of Christmas, which has twelve rooms on the same template, and it placed third, so this was clearly popular -- but one criticism that was made in the voting was that the level ran out of ideas towards the end and some of the iterations were too similar. Another excellent example is "Four Times as Fun" from Gigantic Jewel Lost, which has four rooms that are absolutely identical but the gameplay is different because of where you enter the room from. It's a marvellous technical achievement, and the rooms themselves are very fun.

Any time I do complain about "repetitiveness", my complaint is that the rooms don't do enough to feel different from each other. But that has already been sufficiently explained, so I'll drop the subject :)

Levels 41-50

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 07-30-2024 07:54 PM]
07-30-2024 at 07:16 PM
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azb
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More awesome suggestions as always.

Added all of them.

Do you have any feedback on levels 51 thru 60?

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07-30-2024 at 08:32 PM
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azb
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I didn't fix level 43 fuse timers because I intentionally made them generous for the puzzle element involved, which didn't exist in level 41, but you are right that there is only one way to do the trapdoors so there is no need for a timer so I cut the timer out.

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07-30-2024 at 08:34 PM
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azb
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Note it is intentional the difficulties will sometimes be easier than previous levels in certain levels, just like the original JtRH (level 14 was easier than level 13 in my opinion).

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07-30-2024 at 08:36 PM
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azb
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I didn't revisit the levels yet, but I would assume the same things you said about the tar section you would say about the mud section as well, like cut out the duplicate puzzle in those certain rooms, add vision tokens, and so on.

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[Last edited by azb at 07-30-2024 08:44 PM]
07-30-2024 at 08:41 PM
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Nuntar
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You've attached the wrong hold to the first post -- it's titled Hundred Levels but when I open it, it's the JtRH version of 210 Levels.

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07-30-2024 at 08:56 PM
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azb
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Silly me. I will fix that ASAP.

I didn't add the fuse timer on the door to open the chamber you suggested for level 50, cause I didn't want to make the room too difficult - I did it for the last room only so that the rooms weren't too similar to each other anymore.

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07-30-2024 at 09:15 PM
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azb
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I also added the visibility tokens and removed the repetitiveness in section 14 (levels 53 thru 56) in my latest upload.

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07-30-2024 at 09:17 PM
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Nuntar
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Okay, got the correct version and confirmed that everything up to Level 50 is fixed. L40 1S1E challenge works and is obtainable :thumbsup

Level 26 Entrance: Challenge script is still not quite right (and this time it's my fault). None of the scripts reset l26_entrance_challengefail to 0, so you still can't get the challenge if you leave the room and re-enter from the north. Also, the script that awards the challenge doesn't End after awarding it, so it will re-award if you re-enter the room after a successful completion.

To fix both issues: the character at (5,1) (the one that actually awards the challenge) should have "Set var l26_entrance_challengefail = 0" at the start (before Loop), and End after the Challenge completed command.

Some mistakes in level intro texts:

L43: "familiar" is misspelled
L44: "tar and returned" should be "tar had returned"
L45: "bizarre" is misspelled

L44 1S1E: Add checkpoint at (26,17)

L48 Entrance: The new passage creates a trivial solution. Add a north force arrow at (4,29). Also, Halph won't appear from the west after the player enters the room, so you might want to give the south exit a Halph entrance (although it's not necessary since we know the room can be solved without Halph).

The challenge script doesn't take account of the south entrance. This can be fixed by making it check for Halph in the rectangle (4,20) to (5,28).

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07-30-2024 at 10:55 PM
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azb
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All awesome suggestions as always!

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07-30-2024 at 11:23 PM
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Nuntar
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Everything is fixed up to here except the L44 extra checkpoint -- I meant to say 1S, you put it in 1S1W :P

Levels 51-60

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07-31-2024 at 01:11 AM
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azb
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Yeah, level 44 doesn't have a 1S1E so I was confused, makes more sense now what room you actually meant :)

All the other suggestions you make are awesome as always, and I am glad you found the fact the mud rooms were similar to the tar rooms but had a different solution because of mud vs tar fun to play and humorous at points :P

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07-31-2024 at 10:55 AM
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azb
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And now that you've met all the characters in the hold, do you have any comments on the voice acting? The guards near the very end of the hold are the same exact voice as the Architect/Citizen you met earlier (so my actual voice without any tricks), just in a more shouty inflection to sound authoritative.

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07-31-2024 at 10:58 AM
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azb
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Also, Halph in Level 60 1W, even though he isn't 100% critical to the solution like in the other 2 rooms, is mostly there for story/aesthetic consistency.

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07-31-2024 at 11:01 AM
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azb
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And do you think the challenges names are witty and appropriate for the challenge as well?

I saw that one of level 63's challenges has the same name as one of level 29's, so I am going to fix that by keeping the same name, but adding "II: Electric Boogaloo" afterward, keeping up with a forum in-joke.

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07-31-2024 at 12:29 PM
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Nuntar
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That's a good point -- if two rooms have Challenge completed commands with the same name, the game will treat them as the same challenge. TCB uses this deliberately for the five Slayers room, where you can get the challenge either in The Naming Office or in The Undercity, but here that's not what you want.

Levels 61-72

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07-31-2024 at 07:07 PM
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azb
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Your suggestions are awesome as always - I definitely didn't mean for the airlock in 1E to be that impossible to solve without guessing, so I changed it to be more like the next one by counting the number of tiles and the positioning of objects within it and so on.

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07-31-2024 at 08:28 PM
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azb
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I am intentionally going to reserve the bomb mazes for levels 81 thru 84, even though you suggested I do bomb mazes to improve the tedium in level 50, just to mimic the type of puzzles that JtRH did in that particular order.

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07-31-2024 at 08:32 PM
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Nuntar
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Please do add the suggested challenge to L61 2N; it's a good challenge because it's not just "the same but more", it requires deeper strategical thinking about the room compared to (what is now) the normal solution. I haven't yet tested if the corresponding challenge is possible in L61 1N, but I'll do that at some point.

L72 1S1E: move (27,9) checkpoint to (29,9).

Levels 73-80
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08-01-2024 at 01:43 PM
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azb
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More awesome suggestions as always.

I won't add the challenge in level 61 you suggested just because I can't do it well myself/too tedious, but everything else I will fix like the tedious cleanup in levels 78 and 79, as well as all the other issues you brought up like always.

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08-01-2024 at 02:23 PM
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azb
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Level 78's tedium I fixed by simply making the area smaller as suggested, but level 79's tedium I fixed by simply removing the offending rooms because I didn't have any good ideas for replacement puzzles (again, without bomb mazes because that wasn't a thing in JtRH level 20).

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08-01-2024 at 02:32 PM
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azb
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Levels 86 and 87, although they use lots of tar and mud in combination, shouldn't be as tedious as levels 78 and 79, but I will just wait until you reach it and give your opinion because even if I found it okay, it might annoy you and I would need to fix it.

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08-01-2024 at 02:37 PM
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Nuntar
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azb wrote: I won't add the challenge in level 61 you suggested just because I can't do it well myself/too tedious, but everything else I will fix like the tedious cleanup in levels 78 and 79, as well as all the other issues you brought up like always.

Would it help if I made a demo for the challenge? I could do the ones in Levels 10 and 11 too. As I'm so near the end of the hold, I want to get to the end first, but after that I can go back and help with anything else that's needed.

Regarding the rooms you've taken out, this is just an idea, but would you be okay with me making some rooms for you rather than having blanks? (No bomb mazes, I promise!)

Levels 86 and 87, although they use lots of tar and mud in combination, shouldn't be as tedious as levels 78 and 79, but I will just wait until you reach it and give your opinion because even if I found it okay, it might annoy you and I would need to fix it.

Please don't feel that you have to change anything just because I said so. I'm just one person with opinions, and I've been a bit too forthright about expressing them, and I'm trying to do better :P

Levels 81-90

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Levels 91-97

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 08-02-2024 01:58 PM]
08-02-2024 at 06:05 AM
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azb
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Awesome suggestions as always, and I would definitely like to read your suggestions for level 79's replacement puzzles.

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08-02-2024 at 01:57 PM
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azb
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Levels 98 thru 100 will intentionally be the hardest, with each level being harder than the last, even though level 100 doesn't have any Slayers at all it will be hard in its own special way.

Do you know if it comes across in that way, like an "epic finale" trio of levels, or does any of it come across as too annoying/tedious, easy, or hard, or some other problem I can't think of?

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08-02-2024 at 11:38 PM
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